RE-71R's Lost Grip

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by tony_r

It's not really heat cycles on the RE-71's, it's age. Look at the build date. At 18 months + whenever it was built is a long time in terms current 200tw tire life.

I hadn't heard that before. Does the rubber just start to break down over time?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

71R are "I'm paying for my time" tires. Unfortunately, they are mandatory to be competitive at AutoX.

The sad part is real slicks don't cycle like 71R, and last significantly longer under sustained heat conditions, everyone falls victim to the "200TW" politics.

Really? From what I hear Hoosier A6's /A7's get tossed after ~50 runs. I've heard some people went through a set of A6's over the course of a single Pro Solo, that's a $1k+ tire bill for one weekend Any autoxers out there can correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

The 'stones last at least twice as long and cost half as much, I don't really feel like a victim in that equation, and if they're only really good for the same number of runs, I'm still seeing 2x the seat time for my dollar on the Bridgestones and up to 6x as much value if I can get ~150 runs out of them.

I totally understand if you mean track duty (which is usually the case based on what you dedicate your time to), but that isn't relevant to this thread at all when OP is specifically concerned about Autox life.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by smg1138

I hadn't heard that before. Does the rubber just start to break down over time?

All tires "dry out" so to speak, even long life all-seasons, the rubbers lose their oil and flexibility and get hard, they grip less as the chemical ages is the long and short of it, maybe you call that degradation, maybe you call it something else. That's part of why durometers exist, you can actually get a sense of how old a tire is by how stiff and hard the rubber is, Hoosier doesn't recommend running a tire over 2 years old for instance.

My set of Bridgestones (the ones that weren't any faster than the ~60 run tires) will be going on next spring and they'll hit 2 years old then, they might be uncompetitive at that point but I'll run 'em down for the seat time.

Really what it will come down to for you is how serious are you about putting up good times over the next few months. If you're fine to risk not being at the top of the time sheets, run 'em. If not, spend the money. The biggest risk there is that some hot new tire comes out in the Spring and you get left behind on the tires you bought in the Fall/Winter.

Edit: There will be people like me who think your Bridgestones are still good, you can probably get a few hundred bucks for them given that you're still above the wear bars.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Really? From what I hear Hoosier A6's /A7's get tossed after ~50 runs. I've heard some people went through a set of A6's over the course of a single Pro Solo, that's a $1k+ tire bill for one weekend Any autoxers out there can correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

The 'stones last at least twice as long and cost half as much, I don't really feel like a victim in that equation, and if they're only really good for the same number of runs, I'm still seeing 2x the seat time for my dollar on the Bridgestones and up to 6x as much value if I can get ~150 runs out of them.

I totally understand if you mean track duty (which is usually the case based on what you dedicate your time to), but that isn't relevant to this thread at all when OP is specifically concerned about Autox life.

If you walked around SSR Grid you'd notice that everyone had fresh A7s to use on lincoln concrete (Lincoln is VERY subjective on the condition on R-Compound and unless you have fresh tire you're significantly off pace).

A7s can last sure, 75+ runs but pace drops off them dramatically. Most competitive cars in SSR have either fresh A7s or 20 run A7s for National Events.

FWIW, I corded my BFG RivalS 1.5s at Oscoda this year, with about ~130 runs on a STX car...never flipped. And I won that even by almost a second.


RE-71Rs do tend to lose grip before the tire can cord. The tire is still quick, but the limits of slip angle and abuse the tire can take is much less. I had RE-71Rs on the 128 and when they let go the threshold of grip was a very small window. I wasn't far off the pace, but I had to deal with understeer on entry and oversteer on exit.

I think age is more-so the deciding factor here. How did you store these tires during the off-season? If they're not in black plastic bags, in a climate controlled area you're losing life on them

[dutchman1]

I definitely noticed my RE71R's cycling out at around 110 runs. I was struggling at an event suddenly after steadily improving all year even though I felt like I as driving fine. Felt my tires directly after my last run, and they were still rock hard and not sticky at all after 4 runs in the sun in 90 degree weather, even though the tires were warm to the touch.

I was still able to get em sticky at a practice event after that after about ten runs. I think when they get older they just take more heat to stick, as others have said.

That said I'm still running mine for the rest of the season, still a touch above the wear bars and I flipped em after 70 runs so I have some shoulder left.

[smg1138]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I think age is more-so the deciding factor here. How did you store these tires during the off-season? If they're not in black plastic bags, in a climate controlled area you're losing life on them

I kept them stored inside my house all last winter. Kept them in those Tire Rack tire totes with the handles. Is it better to use black plastic bags instead?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

I think age is more-so the deciding factor here. How did you store these tires during the off-season? If they're not in black plastic bags, in a climate controlled area you're losing life on them

Storage conditions are definitely important too, I've heard the same, black plastic bags, don't let them get cold, don't let them get hot, don't let 'em sit out in the sun,

In my case my climate control is living in California and keeping them in a garage, but with no bags over them I'll bet I definitely lost a notable amount of life out of 'em after sitting for two Winters. But I'm not too concerned with putting up good times at this point, seat time will yield more benefits than fresh tires and I'll run them 'till the tread is gone.



...Well damn, now I'm paranoid I'll be on ice skates next year


Edit: People would be salivating at this info if they could have read it two years ago

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by smg1138

I kept them stored inside my house all last winter. Kept them in those Tire Rack tire totes with the handles. Is it better to use black plastic bags instead?

Basically the oils within the rubber compound drying out is going to be your biggest concern - Long term to exposure to Ozone also could accelerate aging, so yea, something sealed is ideal.

Also - If you have new tires on stickers, no need to do anything, the mold release seals them for you

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Really? From what I hear Hoosier A6's /A7's get tossed after ~50 runs. I've heard some people went through a set of A6's over the course of a single Pro Solo, that's a $1k+ tire bill for one weekend Any autoxers out there can correct me if I'm wrong on that point.

The 'stones last at least twice as long and cost half as much, I don't really feel like a victim in that equation, and if they're only really good for the same number of runs, I'm still seeing 2x the seat time for my dollar on the Bridgestones and up to 6x as much value if I can get ~150 runs out of them.

I totally understand if you mean track duty (which is usually the case based on what you dedicate your time to), but that isn't relevant to this thread at all when OP is specifically concerned about Autox life.

DOT slicks =/= real slicks

I'm talking continental/michelin stuff. Those would never work for Autocross, as they'd not be up to temp.

[M0nk3y]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

DOT slicks =/= real slicks



I'm talking continental/michelin stuff. Those would never work for Autocross, as they'd not be up to temp.

Continental is just a rebranded R6 (well now R7) compound.

Aka - 2 compounds that aren’t even used in autocross


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Storage conditions are definitely important too, I've heard the same, black plastic bags, don't let them get cold, don't let them get hot, don't let 'em sit out in the sun

...Well damn, now I'm paranoid I'll be on ice skates next year

FWIW, I purchased my RE71Rs in the spring of 2016. I did an entire season of autocross on them (won my class) and then stored them very meticulously by... leaving them fully inflated, strapped down on my tire trailer, uncovered, in an unheated storage unit for a Chicago winter...

...this year, while everyone else was using new tires, I used those same tires and won ALL SIX of the Chicago Region events I attended. I'll be storing them this year in the same manner, except they'll be in a townhouse garage which likely won't get as cold. Next year, I'll probably start off on that set as well, so that will be a true test of degradation due to both age and temperatures.

Point being, one winter stored "fairly improperly" didn't seem to do them much harm. At least not enough that it screwed me over in terms of competitiveness.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by M0nk3y

Continental is just a rebranded R6 (well now R7) compound.

Aka - 2 compounds that aren’t even used in autocross


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hoosier carcasses and manufactured by Hoosier, but the compounds themselves are different.

Remember, Continental fully bought out Hoosier earlier this year!

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

FWIW, I purchased my RE71Rs in the spring of 2016. I did an entire season of autocross on them (won my class) and then stored them very meticulously by... leaving them fully inflated, strapped down on my tire trailer, uncovered, in an unheated storage unit for a Chicago winter...

...this year, while everyone else was using new tires, I used those same tires and won ALL SIX of the Chicago Region events I attended. I'll be storing them this year in the same manner, except they'll be in a townhouse garage which likely won't get as cold. Next year, I'll probably start off on that set as well, so that will be a true test of degradation due to both age and temperatures.

Point being, one winter stored "fairly improperly" didn't seem to do them much harm. At least not enough that it screwed me over in terms of competitiveness.

I suspect the driver mod is on your side

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

DOT slicks =/= real slicks

I'm talking continental/michelin stuff. Those would never work for Autocross, as they'd not be up to temp.

So not a relevant viewpoint to this thread then.