Thinking about getting one later this year, a few thoughts

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Clarkson called the 86 he drove "immediate". The 17 is more immediate than my 13 was. If the 17 engine had been there all along, the complaints would be reduced by half, at least.

I have driven a 17 and think you are exaggerating the difference just a tad. I don't think it would change the complainers minds one little bit. Oh and if you are talking an AT 17 then it is exactly the same.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Clarkson called the 86 he drove "immediate". The 17 is more immediate than my 13 was. If the 17 engine had been there all along, the complaints would be reduced by half, at least.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have driven a 17 and think you are exaggerating the difference just a tad. I don't think it would change the complainers minds one little bit. Oh and if you are talking an AT 17 then it is exactly the same.

I bet you a dollar that, in addition to a fun little torque bump up top, they sorted out the vsc latency/interference. It's my pet peeve, and lack of "immediacy" is exactly how I would describe it. Hence, if on a decent drive, I pedal dance at the first traffic light after she warms up.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I bet you a dollar that, in addition to a fun little torque bump up top, they sorted out the vsc latency/interference. It's my pet peeve, and lack of "immediacy" is exactly how I would describe it. Hence, if on a decent drive, I pedal dance at the first traffic light after she warms up.

I challenge anybody to convince me that they can feel a 5 hp and 5 lb-ft difference. This change is barely measurable under controlled conditions much less out driving with all of the variables. You could get that much variation driving the same car on a hot humid day vs a cool dry one. Now, I do have the TRD drop in and exhaust so maybe that tiny change makes mine closer to the performance of a 17 than a bone stock 13-16 but I highly doubt it.

I did not push it hard enough to engage VSC (it had 12 miles on it and I wasn't buying) so can't speak to any change there but under driving conditions where it wouldn't have kicked in with either car the only notable difference was the more compliant (read softer) suspension.

Take one for a spin if you get a chance and you will see there really is not notable difference. Most certainly not one that would do away with half the complaints.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I did not push it hard enough to engage VSC (it had 12 miles on it and I wasn't buying) so can't speak to any change there but under driving conditions where it wouldn't have kicked in with either car...

Take one for a spin if you get a chance and you will see there really is not notable difference. Most certainly not one that would do away with half the complaints.

I will for sure. 5 hp expressed in terms of peak torque at whatever RPM above the dip will feel more dramatic than coming out of it on a zenki. I'm sure that's what the "it feels like vtec" guys are trying to say. It's also why, for a minute, I was considering the short Ace Anaconda header. Not because I want to go fast, but because I like a fun torque bump, even if it's from coming out of a big fucking hole. I get used to driving anything but I prefer a little drama. I can easily feel the difference between cool crisp days and hot muggy ones. Love driving it in the fall.

I agree with you about the worst whiners. No, it won't help in the slightest with them.

In ours, VSC doesn't have to be engaged to interfere. It does it secretly way before the light starts blinking. I'm curious about how the new brake module affects the throttle control loop. Not that I would buy one because, again, pedal dance. DGAF.

the only notable difference was the more compliant (read softer) suspension.

I read that as 'disappointing.'

[PetrolioBenzina]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

I will for sure. 5 hp expressed in terms of peak torque at whatever RPM above the dip will feel more dramatic than coming out of it on a zenki. I'm sure that's what the "it feels like vtec" guys are trying to say. It's also why, for a minute, I was considering the short Ace Anaconda header. Not because I want to go fast, but because I like a fun torque bump, even if it's from coming out of a big fucking hole. I get used to driving anything but I prefer a little drama. I can easily feel the difference between cool crisp days and hot muggy ones. Love driving it in the fall.

I agree with you about the worst whiners. No, it won't help in the slightest with them.

In ours, VSC doesn't have to be engaged to interfere. It does it secretly way before the light starts blinking. I'm curious about how the new brake module affects the throttle control loop. Not that I would buy one because, again, pedal dance. DGAF.

I read that as 'disappointing.'

Ehh, it's a butt-dyno and it is not calibrated or standardized at all. It feels better than the 13, IMO, and that's all that matters to me. Perhaps I should have said throttle response. The stock 17 fells like an OFT tuned 13 out of the box, and that was a very noticeable difference.

Don't care what they did to the suspension, it's far more settled on roads that had the 13 upset. Is it "better"? Dunno, but it is certainly not as harsh as the 13, and it is good enough that I have no desire to change the suspension.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Ehh, it's a butt-dyno and it is not calibrated or standardized at all. It feels better than the 13, IMO, and that's all that matters to me. Perhaps I should have said throttle response. The stock 17 fells like an OFT tuned 13 out of the box, and that was a very noticeable difference.

Don't care what they did to the suspension, it's far more settled on roads that had the 13 upset. Is it "better"? Dunno, but it is certainly not as harsh as the 13, and it is good enough that I have no desire to change the suspension.

Yup. Totally get that and was actually referring to a legitimate combination of a little extra juice and throttle response.

The suspension tuning probably is better.

[Impureclient]

Got a haircut today and on the way out of there I was able to make the trip to my car in 58 steps instead of the usual 59 steps due to the weight loss and new aero.

[mremg]

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't they change the gearing too? I remember reading that the final drive ratio is much shorter in '17 86 than previous MY. I think with shorter final drive, you'd definitely feel more torque being put on the ground.

[Somerandom18]

4.3 in 17 vs 4.1 in previous years.

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[PetrolioBenzina]

OP, simple answer. Do it, unless you consider fun to be racing Camry's from light-to-light.

[mrg666]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I challenge anybody to convince me that they can feel a 5 hp and 5 lb-ft difference.

Do you really want to go through that "experience"? Think again!

[mremg]

Originally Posted by SlowCarFast

The s2k was my main other choice before I bought my brz recently, so I will put in my .02


The s2k is a higher performing car than the 86 and the f20 is a VERY special engine. It has more character that the fa20 will ever have. I suggest you come to terms with that or you will never be happy with an 86. Also, the newer 86 is cheaper than the s2k ever was, so there are some compromises in general materials.

That being said, the 86 platform is special in its own way. It BEGS you to go faster. It will never scare you. It will never do anything without ample warning. While the pre-06 s2k's are more analog, I think the 86 gives the driver more overall feedback. The car is so low and the chassis is so good that you know exactly what all 4 wheels are doing at all times. Every little bump and variance in the road is magnified. Why the fa20 has less character, you will grow to appreciate the more linear and predictable power band if you spend enough time with it.

Also, the 86 is a coupe and newer. Even though the interior materials are much nicer in the s2k, I feel the 86 is generally a nicer place to be. But I am not much of a convertible guy, so take that for what you will.

Basically, go drive one on some back roads. Try to get a few hours with one. Push it a little... Then push it harder. Hear the car whisper in your ear that you are a ***** for taking the turn that slow. If you still don't like it, then it is not the car for you.

Thanks for your input. I did drive the FR-S on a few back roads and was really impressed. My only gripe with it is the engine's lack of character. I did buy a car like that before the NC Miata and I ended up regretting it. (But it has other problems too like that soft suspension). My SO liked it enough so that it became her car One thing that I liked very much in the FR-S is how you have to rev the engine high to make peak torque. The Mazda motor made a lot of torque down low and it always annoyed me that there is not much top end. Oh well, I might as well do it and if I really don't like it I'll just take the hit.

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

OP, simple answer. Do it, unless you consider fun to be racing Camry's from light-to-light.

Umm, no thanks. I never really understood the whole stoplight racing with camrys and minivans.

[chaoskaze]

What's wrong with the TT? TT is an amazing car, especially the RS. O.o

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

What's wrong with the TT? TT is an amazing car, especially the RS. O.o

Edit: Misread the intent of your post.
Also OP, changing headers will make the car not emissions legal and it will fail inspection.


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0uDVCP2XuA"]Regular Car Reviews: 2002 Audi TT Quattro - YouTube[/ame]