CSG Mike's 2017 BRZ + Ace A350 dynos.

[weederr33]

Eeek $2250 for just a header & tune. I want the ACE A350 so bad but I just can't justify it yet.... :/

[justinco]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've heard this a lot, but you have a data logging setup, how much time per run is spent <5k rpm? 4.5k rpm? 4k rpm?

I question the "need" for low end torque in an autox 86 (sorry if you didn't mean to imply that's what you're looking for in your post and I'm preaching to the choir), yeah it's miserable digging out of those one or two slow corners, but when 90% of your run is above the "dip", seems like a no-brainer to me where the emphasis should be...

I totally get what you are saying, which is why I have been thinking of switching to an EL header over the off-season. However, the way I look at it is this; where do these cars suffer the most? It is in the digs and between 3500rpm - 5000rpm. Once we get above 5k rpm or so, the limitation is no longer power, it is grip. Having more power there really doesn't help too much, where as having some more grunt in the mid-range does. And this is speaking strictly STX autocross and my opinion, of course

Originally Posted by Williampreza

snipped... Based on that, maybe the torque dip is not as much of an issue as initially thought and you should be aiming at better high end hp?

My 2 cents. Headed back to watch the rest of the video.

See above. Check out some of the other vids, like Spring Nationals 2017. There is a good amount of time in the 3700-5000rpm range.

I agree that majority of our runs are in the upper end of the rpm range. I just think there is more to be gained in the mid-range.

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The A/350 is what you want for sustained 4500-redline use.

Altitude is a factor, but dyno readings correct for temperature/pressure/humidity to "normalize" the readings. That being said, as previously stated, the relative gains are what truly matter. A 20% gain is a 20% gain, whether you're at 200 feet or 7000 feet.

Catbacks have little to no effect on power output at a stock NA engine level. I say use whatever gives you the sound you want. I use a stock exhaust.

Right, the graphs I have posted are corrected for the altitude. The raw numbers are pitiful

And yes, relative gains are what I try to look at. Hence why I always do pre and post dyno pulls. The best I see from mine, is ~15% in the mid-range for torque. HP is probably less at 10%. I think it can better, which is why I'm asking lots of questions about these since I may purchase one at some point.

Thanks for your input!

[jasonojordan]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Eeek $2250 for just a header & tune. I want the ACE A350 so bad but I just can't justify it yet.... :/

Take a spin in a car that has one with a proper tune and you will realize...its only money haha.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by jasonojordan

Take a spin in a car that has one with a proper tune and you will realize...its only money haha.

hahahaha! I mean, I would like to give my car the best of the best....

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The A/350 is what you want for sustained 4500-redline use.

Perfect for a car seeing drift duty. I might have to link up with you to catch a ride along and see how it feels for myself.

$2200 is a lot, but if it's a big difference over what my last car with Tomei EL + OFT was, I'm willing to spend it.

[Trust86]

Is the mini tq "dip" from 3500-4500 because of the OEM front pipe?

Edit: just curious because I have the A350 and I do not have a dip, wondering what's causing it

[86_IT]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

2017 BRZ
Ace A350 header w/ CSG ceramic coating
DT Ace tune
OEM FP
OEM exhaust
OEM intake
OEM engine
you get the idea...



Ace/ACN91 18% gain
Ace/E70 25% gain

my question is then. what will the 42.7 anaconda produce considering it is the one designed for max NA power.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

I do infact see that it's possible with a top notch tuner, I meant more that I havnt seen anyone take the off the self DT Ace tune and have the same results, especially because others in the ACE thread have said that they only got an 8HP (And then later 16HP) gain.

I cant speak on the Ace header but I have taken a DT tune to 204hp with only 2 revisions. On E85 flex fuel "DT Flex system" Then thought their had to be more on the table and drove 800 miles put it on a dyno to get 3 more hp 3 hrs later. That is just how solid a DT map is....

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

I'm in the same boat about the skepticism, my baseline 2017 was 177 on a dynojet, and then I made 181 with the OFT Stage 1.

Based on there gains I would be making 207 on the same dynojet on pump gas. And if that's the case then I need to buy one yesterday, but I havn't seen anyone's personal dynos so I'm still weary.

A EL header will hands down make more power than a UEL header. BUT if you got to have that subie rumble UEL is the way to go.
I took a N/A FRS to 13.47 1/4 mile at 3000lbs. the only way to do that is 200+hp

[Turdinator]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

A EL header will hands down make more power than a UEL header. BUT if you got to have that subie rumble UEL is the way to go.
I took a N/A FRS to 13.47 1/4 mile at 3000lbs. the only way to do that is 200+hp

You shouldn't really generalise like that about UEL vs EL. The Tomei headers are a good example, once tuned their EL and UEL make the same peak power but the UEL fills in the torque dip where the EL doesn't. Another example is the JDL UEL, which doesn't fill in the torque dip as nicely as some other UELs but it has a nice bump in torque up around 6k rpm that the other UELs don't. Or of course the ACE 4-2-1s which fill in the torque dip unlike almost any other EL header.

Congrats on the 1/4 mile time, that is damn good for an NA FRS.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by weederr33

Eeek $2250 for just a header & tune. I want the ACE A350 so bad but I just can't justify it yet.... :/

1800 for header + tune.

+450 for ceramic coating.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by Trust86

Is the mini tq "dip" from 3500-4500 because of the OEM front pipe?

Edit: just curious because I have the A350 and I do not have a dip, wondering what's causing it

Yes. I still have a stock FP.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

You shouldn't really generalise like that about UEL vs EL. The Tomei headers are a good example, once tuned their EL and UEL make the same peak power but the UEL fills in the torque dip where the EL doesn't. Another example is the JDL UEL, which doesn't fill in the torque dip as nicely as some other UELs but it has a nice bump in torque up around 6k rpm that the other UELs don't. Or of course the ACE 4-2-1s which fill in the torque dip unlike almost any other EL header.

Congrats on the 1/4 mile time, that is damn good for an NA FRS.

I totally agree with where your coming from, I should have stated that a EL vs a UEL that is designed specifically for top hp the EL will win hands down. It's good that you pointed out the TQ capabilities of the UEL since that is what you feel in the seat..
Thanks for the 1/4 mile props too brother, that was a couple years ago.

[weederr33]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

1800 for header + tune.

+450 for ceramic coating.

But my bank account

Also I was heavily leaning towards the HKS header... but ugh. :/