CSG Mike's 2017 BRZ + Ace A350 dynos.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by jmark

Am I reading the graph correctly that where the stock torque dip is the worst you have 155 ft/lbs with the 91 octane tune? CSG Mike what does a Ace A350 header w/ CSG ceramic coating
DT Ace tune cost shipped to 29651 Greer SC?

2250 for header + ceramic + tune.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by justinco

I am really curious how your stock dyno graph is so smooth. Mine looks nothing like that. In fact, my full bolt-on tuned version looks like your stock version (from a graph pov).

Is your stock baseline also tuned to just flatten out the torque dip? Did you do a test where you tune the car just in stock form, to see how much gain is actually from the tune versus the header?

I am still really skeptical that these things make so much more power than any other header. Assuming the graph is whp and not flywheel, like it says, this would suggest that I could gain another 10-15whp from just swapping in the header and DT tune. I find that hard to believe, since my max power gains were only 3hp/tq over stock with full bolt-ons and ECUtek e-tune (power under the curve was obviously big gains in mid-range).

However, I would love to be wrong so I can buy one of these and get the extra power. Maybe it's the difference in EL versus UEL? (I have UEL header).

My stock and tuned graphs are below.

The 20wtq dip in my baseline is abotu the same as the 20wtq dip in your baseline.

3hp/tq gain? You need a better tune, quite frankly... even the cheapest cat delete will do more than that with a proper tune.

Your baseline is also significantly higher than mine, which means the gains that could be had with an Ace header + tune is actually quite a bit more than 10whp.

[reebis]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

2250 for header + ceramic + tune.

Is that with or without an ECUTek license?

[JermMX5]

Originally Posted by justinco

I am really curious how your stock dyno graph is so smooth. Mine looks nothing like that. In fact, my full bolt-on tuned version looks like your stock version (from a graph pov).

Is your stock baseline also tuned to just flatten out the torque dip? Did you do a test where you tune the car just in stock form, to see how much gain is actually from the tune versus the header?

I am still really skeptical that these things make so much more power than any other header. Assuming the graph is whp and not flywheel, like it says, this would suggest that I could gain another 10-15whp from just swapping in the header and DT tune. I find that hard to believe, since my max power gains were only 3hp/tq over stock with full bolt-ons and ECUtek e-tune (power under the curve was obviously big gains in mid-range).

However, I would love to be wrong so I can buy one of these and get the extra power. Maybe it's the difference in EL versus UEL? (I have UEL header).

My stock and tuned graphs are below.

I'm in the same boat about the skepticism, my baseline 2017 was 177 on a dynojet, and then I made 181 with the OFT Stage 1.

Based on there gains I would be making 207 on the same dynojet on pump gas. And if that's the case then I need to buy one yesterday, but I havn't seen anyone's personal dynos so I'm still weary.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by reebis

Is that with or without an ECUTek license?

Without.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by JermMX5

I'm in the same boat about the skepticism, my baseline 2017 was 177 on a dynojet, and then I made 181 with the OFT Stage 1.

Based on there gains I would be making 207 on the same dynojet on pump gas. And if that's the case then I need to buy one yesterday, but I havn't seen anyone's personal dynos so I'm still weary.

Different tuner, different dyno, and 3 less years of experience tuning the platform for everyone resulted in this. I think it's safe to say it's repeatable if you have a top notch tuner.

[justinco]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

The 20wtq dip in my baseline is abotu the same as the 20wtq dip in your baseline.

3hp/tq gain? You need a better tune, quite frankly... even the cheapest cat delete will do more than that with a proper tune.

Your baseline is also significantly higher than mine, which means the gains that could be had with an Ace header + tune is actually quite a bit more than 10whp.

I'll attach the overlay for context, as there are decent gains. But yes, I was not too happy with just a few hp/tq gains at the peak. My 2013 FRS made more peak, but it also dyno'd less stock.

We have done 20+ tune revisions on the 2017 car with my tuner, I am pretty confident it is a good tune. But, things like this make me question my setup/tune lol.

Part of it could be that I am at mile high altitude in Denver, where we have no air

What do you guys recommend to complete the exhaust with an A350? I currently have a Berk front pipe w/ HFC and Blitz VSR exhaust (and another exhaust I can use that is custom made).

My car is setup to be nationally competitive for SCCA autocross, I need all the power/torque I can get. Would the CS400 be a better option for that use case?

[jasonojordan]

With my ace 350 I am running Invidia Q300. Its tame most of the time but when you want to make noise it opens up alot. Personally I feel anything louder then the Q300 would be obnoxious with a full catless system like I have.

Originally Posted by justinco

I'll attach the overlay for context, as there are decent gains. But yes, I was not too happy with just a few hp/tq gains at the peak. My 2013 FRS made more peak, but it also dyno'd less stock.

We have done 20+ tune revisions on the 2017 car with my tuner, I am pretty confident it is a good tune. But, things like this make me question my setup/tune lol.

Part of it could be that I am at mile high altitude in Denver, where we have no air

What do you guys recommend to complete the exhaust with an A350? I currently have a Berk front pipe w/ HFC and Blitz VSR exhaust (and another exhaust I can use that is custom made).

My car is setup to be nationally competitive for SCCA autocross, I need all the power/torque I can get. Would the CS400 be a better option for that use case?

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by justinco

My car is setup to be nationally competitive for SCCA autocross, I need all the power/torque I can get. Would the CS400 be a better option for that use case?

I've heard this a lot, but you have a data logging setup, how much time per run is spent <5k rpm? 4.5k rpm? 4k rpm?

I question the "need" for low end torque in an autox 86 (sorry if you didn't mean to imply that's what you're looking for in your post and I'm preaching to the choir), yeah it's miserable digging out of those one or two slow corners, but when 90% of your run is above the "dip", seems like a no-brainer to me where the emphasis should be...

[JermMX5]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Different tuner, different dyno, and 3 less years of experience tuning the platform for everyone resulted in this. I think it's safe to say it's repeatable if you have a top notch tuner.

I do infact see that it's possible with a top notch tuner, I meant more that I havnt seen anyone take the off the self DT Ace tune and have the same results, especially because others in the ACE thread have said that they only got an 8HP (And then later 16HP) gain.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by justinco

I'll attach the overlay for context, as there are decent gains. But yes, I was not too happy with just a few hp/tq gains at the peak. My 2013 FRS made more peak, but it also dyno'd less stock.

We have done 20+ tune revisions on the 2017 car with my tuner, I am pretty confident it is a good tune. But, things like this make me question my setup/tune lol.

Part of it could be that I am at mile high altitude in Denver, where we have no air

What do you guys recommend to complete the exhaust with an A350? I currently have a Berk front pipe w/ HFC and Blitz VSR exhaust (and another exhaust I can use that is custom made).

My car is setup to be nationally competitive for SCCA autocross, I need all the power/torque I can get. Would the CS400 be a better option for that use case?

The A/350 is what you want for sustained 4500-redline use.

Altitude is a factor, but dyno readings correct for temperature/pressure/humidity to "normalize" the readings. That being said, as previously stated, the relative gains are what truly matter. A 20% gain is a 20% gain, whether you're at 200 feet or 7000 feet.

Catbacks have little to no effect on power output at a stock NA engine level. I say use whatever gives you the sound you want. I use a stock exhaust.

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

2250 for header + ceramic + tune.

Holy Toledo. No doubt this is probably one of the best headers on the market for our cars, and likely Mikes results have quite a bit of tuning time on them. BUT, that's a pretty big chunk of change that could go a long ways to a decent turbo kit. Of course we all have different needs, but not sure how I could spend over 2k on metal tubes lol. YMMV

Sent from my SM-N920V using Tapatalk

[Williampreza]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I've heard this a lot, but you have a data logging setup, how much time per run is spent <5k rpm? 4.5k rpm? 4k rpm?

I question the "need" for low end torque in an autox 86 (sorry if you didn't mean to imply that's what you're looking for in your post and I'm preaching to the choir), yeah it's miserable digging out of those one or two slow corners, but when 90% of your run is above the "dip", seems like a no-brainer to me where the emphasis should be...

I just watched Justin's exhaust shootout video for the 2017 BRZ (Really enjoying these BTW!). In your test of the second, Magnaflow custom exhaust, you've got rpm's displayed in your overlay. Those didn't drop below 4k for the entire span of your run and stayed above 5k (mostly in the 6-7k range actually) for most of the time. Based on that, maybe the torque dip is not as much of an issue as initially thought and you should be aiming at better high end hp?

My 2 cents. Headed back to watch the rest of the video.

[tshrey]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'll let the numbers speak for themselves.

2017 BRZ
Ace A350 header w/ CSG ceramic coating
DT Ace tune
OEM FP
OEM exhaust
OEM intake
OEM engine
you get the idea...



Ace/ACN91 18% gain
Ace/E70 25% gain

Is that dip in the 91 plot at 2500 real? With how sharp it is (both down and back) it seems like it would be annoying from every pull away from a stop in first gear.