Proof that Coilovers Reduce Lap Times??????

[FrostedFlakes]

Originally Posted by MeisterR

Coilovers doesn't reduce lap time on its own.
Just because you have coilovers, your car does not magically produce more traction.
You have to look at the complete setup.

If you are comparing a relatively soft standard setup, then a stiffer set of suspensions does help reduce the body roll, the dive under braking, and squat on acceleration.
However, that is only applicable if your tires can generate the traction that work with the stiffer suspension.

In the end, the only thing on the cars that actually touch the ground is the tires.
Therefore, all vehicle dynamic calculation start at the tires.

Just bolting on coilovers and keeping the OEM economy tires may not necessary yield better result.
Bolting on sticky semi-slick tires and keeping the OEM suspension may exaggerate the amount of body roll due to higher traction.
Having uprated suspension along with sticky tires will yield the best result, because everything work together in a package.

Jerrick

I can attest to that. I currently run full coilovers with swaybars and bushings on stock tires. My times are actually worse than some thats full OEM. That is most likely me, but having an car that is too stiff for the tires also doesn't help the situation.

[churchx]

FrostedFlakes: or their times are better due them dedicating that coilovers/swaybars/bushings budget on more track seat time .

[Purist]

Originally Posted by churchx

FrostedFlakes: or their times are better due them dedicating that coilovers/swaybars/bushings budget on more track seat time .

This is sort of what I was hoping to ascertain to some extent. I was wanting to see if I got any scenarios like: "My lap times have been consistently 1:12:56s for the last year. Then I got some XXXXXX coilovers and the next meet my times dropped to 1:10:55s

It was more a data gathering exercise than a question about 'Will coilovers make me faster'. From my limited experience and the posts in this thread it seems like $2000 would be better spent on seat time than coilovers.

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Purist

This is sort of what I was hoping to ascertain to some extent. I was wanting to see if I got any scenarios like: "My lap times have been consistently 1:12:56s for the last year. Then I got some XXXXXX coilovers and the next meet my times dropped to 1:10:55s

It was more a data gathering exercise than a question about 'Will coilovers make me faster'. From my limited experience and the posts in this thread it seems like $2000 would be better spent on seat time than coilovers.

The reality is that this is correct for at least 9 out of 10 people and I'd venture to say even 99 out of 100. There are very few people who aren't still getting faster every time they go out so it's difficult to tell what is from the coilovers and what is from the additional experience.

I put on coilovers after my first year of tracking and my lap time dropped from a 2:22 to a 2:18. How much of that was the coilovers and how much of it was my skill improving, it's impossible to know. The next time I went out, my time dropped to 2:12 and I didn't change anything on the car. I'm now 3 years in and I still drop anywhere from half a second to a full second per minute off my lap time every lapping day that I attend. For the $200 that I spend per event to improve my pace by that much, coilovers don't stand a chance.

[jamal]

How's this?

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=13844

Matt knows what he's doing behind the wheel.

A big part of it is just going to higher spring rates. With any halfway decent tire, the stock springs and bars are too soft to keep the tires in good contact with the ground. You wind up with way excessive roll and using the outside edges of the tires. This is also why cheap coilovers, not ideal rates, and not ideal dampers still make an improvement.

[Purist]

Originally Posted by jamal

With any halfway decent tire, the stock springs and bars are too soft to keep the tires in good contact with the ground. You wind up with way excessive roll and using the outside edges of the tires.

Too right! I run stock suspension and 225 AO50s. I have a good 1" of virtually unused rubber on the inside edge of my tyres, and the outside edge is used (right up to the indicator on the sidewall) has big lumps of sticky rubber hanging off it after a run.

Buuuuuuut...It's my road car and I drive on very shitty rural roads so have decided to leave it nice and soft.

[ApexEight]

Originally Posted by Purist

Too right! I run stock suspension and 225 AO50s. I have a good 1" of virtually unused rubber on the inside edge of my tyres, and the outside edge is used (right up to the indicator on the sidewall) has big lumps of sticky rubber hanging off it after a run.

Buuuuuuut...It's my road car and I drive on very shitty rural roads so have decided to leave it nice and soft.

Are you running any sway bars and what are your camber settings? Does this occur on both your front and rear tires? This is a result from racing on a track, right?

[churchx]

Purist: it sounds more of like it's not issue of spring stiffness/ride comfort, rather that you have insufficient negative camber dialed in at alignment, for more even tire wear on your average track/daily driving ratio.

[jamal]

Well, when the springs are too soft, you wind up not being able to even adjust in enough camber to make tire temps even, and if you can it tends to be an absurd amount, like over -4 degrees, which compromises braking ability.

[Purist]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

Are you running any sway bars and what are your camber settings? Does this occur on both your front and rear tires? This is a result from racing on a track, right?

100% stock suspension setup. I'm aware that I should be running more neg camber but like I said I live in a rural area and drive 4 hours to the track. I think even with 0 toe a couple of degrees of camber would wear tyres over that distance.

Also it's a Hillclimb track with tight corners so the wear is exacerbated.

[Purist]

Originally Posted by jamal

Well, when the springs are too soft, you wind up not being able to even adjust in enough camber to make tire temps even, and if you can it tends to be an absurd amount, like over -4 degrees, which compromises braking ability.

Educate me. Is this because the springs compress so much that the geometry goes back to zero/positive camber?

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Purist

100% stock suspension setup. I'm aware that I should be running more neg camber but like I said I live in a rural area and drive 4 hours to the track. I think even with 0 toe a couple of degrees of camber would wear tyres over that distance.

Also it's a Hillclimb track with tight corners so the wear is exacerbated.

Unlikely unless you go crazy. -2.5f/-1.8r minimum and that's a compromise for better daily wear. If you change tires at the track, you'll wear the street tires out a little early, but the cost savings in longer wear at the track will more than make up for it. If the same tires everywhere,track wear far exceeds any other... Either way, not enough camber is costing you more in worn tires at the moment.

[ApexEight]

Originally Posted by cjd

Unlikely unless you go crazy. -2.5f/-1.8r minimum and that's a compromise for better daily wear. If you change tires at the track, you'll wear the street tires out a little early, but the cost savings in longer wear at the track will more than make up for it. If the same tires everywhere,track wear far exceeds any other... Either way, not enough camber is costing you more in worn tires at the moment.

For stock springs and shocks with just crash bolts up front (so like -1.5 camber) and a 22mm Strano front sway bar and some 200TW tires (225/45 on stock 17x7s) do you think I would still see bad outer shoulder wear on my front tires on track? What about the rears? I would imagine the rears would be ok since they aren't digging to hard. Concerned about the fronts though. This setup is what I plan for on my D Street autocross setup, but I would like to take it on a couple track days a year.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by ApexEight

For stock springs and shocks with just crash bolts up front (so like -1.5 camber) and a 22mm Strano front sway bar and some 200TW tires (225/45 on stock 17x7s) do you think I would still see bad outer shoulder wear on my front tires on track? What about the rears? I would imagine the rears would be ok since they aren't digging to hard. Concerned about the fronts though. This setup is what I plan for on my D Street autocross setup, but I would like to take it on a couple track days a year.

Less than no camber, more than camber for even tire temps. Others that have done this can probably give a better idea. I went straight to STX prep, had no desire to fight limited setup options.