Um guys? Scion's Own FT86 Coming to New York Show Next month?

[Matador]

Toyota does have a sequential gearbox, but they don't have any dual clutches. Doubt they will develop one just for this.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I just get the feeling that, they're going to put some crappy Automatic without Paddles, on to the car to save cost. A dual Clutch setup would make it extremely competitive with the competition.

What part of "entry level sports car" are people not understanding here?


Some people's expectations are absurd.

[Midship Runabout]

One of the few FACTS toyota has said about this car, is it will be a 6-speed manual with a 2.0 boxer. Never ever have they mentioned automatic or scion.

[Midship Runabout]

Originally Posted by OldSkoolToys

Opinions are opinionated.

I agree

[Deslock]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I just hope we get a good gearbox for people who want DST instead of Manual.

An AT (DSG or not) is at odds with what this car is supposed to be about. Anything but a quality short-throw MT would be blasphemy.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Deslock

An AT (DSG or not) is at odds with what this car is supposed to be about. Anything but a quality short-throw MT would be blasphemy.

You say that now but wait 10 years when you need a part and your local pull-a-part center has 3-4 of these suckers on the lot because they offered Automatics for little Suzy Q blondie.

Yes, I plan on owning this car for that long....longer even.

The ONLY thing (and yes, this is the only thing) that sucks about owning an AE86 (Actually I take that back, its kind of a perk too) is how rare they are to find NOT in the hands of an enthusiast. Getting used OEM parts can be a BITCH, usually have to look to more expensive aftermarket.

Not only that but the huge AE86 core fan group is in SoCal, and 90% of them are either:
A) too lazy to ship even a sensor across the country
B) won't because they're greedy assholes that keep parts local and bone the rest of U.S. AE86 fanbase.

[TRDMAN]

Originally Posted by xantonin

GR is the engine family, 1 means it is the first generation.

The letters after the - indicate the type of engine. FE would mean F = narrow-angle valve DOHC with E = electronic fuel injection.

ah thanks!

[Zaku]

Whoa you don't have to be so hostile you know, I don't plan on getting mine in Auto, I've never owned an Automatic car. I agree that anything less than a good 6 Speed is blasphemy for this car.

But I would hope they stay competitive with the rivals by offering a sequential automatic. Main reason I would like them to have a good and fun automatic is because I like to get my father one, he has a knee problem and can no longer press down on a clutch pedal without feeling pain. Now the guy is old school, he owned a Levin back in 86 and his brother in law had a Trueno they both were into motor sports with those back in the old days in Asia. When he came over to the US, he bought another Levin. Even today talking to him he asked about the new 86. The only way for him to experience racing again would be to get a car with a proper sequential automatic. So It be nice if he could go around the race track in a car he likes again. The only other car he seems interested in are a 370z and a Civic Si. He doesn't want the Z because he doesn't like the fact he can't see out the back, and the Si because it's Manual only.

And on another note wither you like it or not Dual Clutch is the future, it's like HD television and Black and white. Yeah back in the day you enjoy messing around with the antenna and your all proud of yourself when you get a good picture. But Fact of the matter is Color Tele and HD is better. It's more enjoyable to a degree and it's definitely Faster in the hands of a normal person. Not a professional Racer, those guys I still think is faster than a machine. But because your not a Professional, to be the fastest sometimes better tech is just needed. But that's getting into the, what's better being the fastest and winning? or enjoying the experience along the way.

In the end, if this thing is a Scion, no even if it's a Toyota. There's a 90% chance In my opinion from looking at the trend that it will have an Auto. I'm hoping it's a good sequential auto. Not a Auto like the one in the Scion Tc it doesn't even have paddles. Paddles makes a sports car way fun, I drove a 370z with paddles and I thought it was fun, without thinking too much. And like we've seen so far from that Toyota guy that replied here, I don't think they care about what the car is suppose to be about. It's more about what makes money. And if this car is successful I think it will bring about more sports cars. So there is nothing wrong with it having and auto/paddle version at all.

I hope you guys understand where I'm coming from here. One Enthusiast to another.

[xantonin]

Originally Posted by Dragonitti

Man if I had a dollar for every time someone said something about the engine being shared with the Camry. Guess that makes it a Camry, Rav4, and Corolla XRS all at the same time because they share a 2az-FE. Oh but wait, it has the same braking system as the Celica GTS....guess that makes it a Celica too.

lol good point on the brakes (although I'm not sure on their accuracy).

I only bring up the Camry thing because I'm upset that Toyota no longer develops an engine for straight performance to be used in a performance car (exclude Lexus). Yes the tC isn't advertised as a race car but it is advertised as a performance sports car.

What I'd like to see is an engine designed for straight up performance and put directly in a performance vehicle FIRST. After that I'm fine with it being used in other vehicles like the Camry.

My reasoning is that I get the impression from Toyota that performance is always a side effect of any engine they make. After they are like "oh hey we could probably come up with a sports car to put this same engine in!"

The FT-86 is no exception since the engine isn't even designed by Toyota...

But I regress, my point was that Toyota's effort into Scion is half assed. I'm fine with Scion pumping money into motorsports and whatnot, I'm just saying the initial effort of making the cars comes off to me as being "Frankenstein" cars with parts taken from their family cars.

To me, performance should be their flagship (whether Scion or not) and then parts taken from their performance vehicles into others.

But hey, I could just have no idea what I'm talking about. If that's the case though, then what I'm saying is based on the image I am getting from what it appears Toyota is portraying.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by xantonin

lol good point on the brakes (although I'm not sure on their accuracy).

I only bring up the Camry thing because I'm upset that Toyota no longer develops an engine for straight performance to be used in a performance car (exclude Lexus). Yes the tC isn't advertised as a race car but it is advertised as a performance sports car.

What I'd like to see is an engine designed for straight up performance and put directly in a performance vehicle FIRST. After that I'm fine with it being used in other vehicles like the Camry.

My reasoning is that I get the impression from Toyota that performance is always a side effect of any engine they make. After they are like "oh hey we could probably come up with a sports car to put this same engine in!"

The FT-86 is no exception since the engine isn't even designed by Toyota...

But I regress, my point was that Toyota's effort into Scion is half assed. I'm fine with Scion pumping money into motorsports and whatnot, I'm just saying the initial effort of making the cars comes off to me as being "Frankenstein" cars with parts taken from their family cars.

To me, performance should be their flagship (whether Scion or not) and then parts taken from their performance vehicles into others.

But hey, I could just have no idea what I'm talking about. If that's the case though, then what I'm saying is based on the image I am getting from what it appears Toyota is portraying.

A couple things about Dragon there. He has done extensive work to his tC to make it fast. He is also probably a very fast driver himself regardless of the car he is in. His attitude is that he will make whatever car he drives fast through mods. These are all good enthusiast traits.

However he is a bit blind to the fact that the tC is a completely dull car right off the floor. His arguments usually revolve around racing and tuning programs that are either supported openly by Scion/Toyota NA, or through back door programs.

A good example of this is the Scion Tuner Challenge. It isn't something that he or any other Scion owner can enter with their own personal car. People basically submit a resume or portfolio to Scion, then if certain criteria are met, the successful applicants are given their choice of Scion and a $15k budget to mod it. Winners are picked, the cars go back to Scion and are used in the print ads that have the disclaimer that you basically can't do any of this because the mods are non-Scion approved and will void your warranty. How does this support a real Scion fan?

This is similar to the Scion racing programs. Scion threw a lot of money at all the top import teams that were becoming cash-strapped as the scene was beginning to fade. There is a Titan 2JZ 'Scion' for fuck sakes... (For those that don't know Titan is one of the biggest Supra drag racing teams out there.)

In both of the tuning and racing scenario it isn't 'real' support for the customers. It is pure marketing. The Tuning Challenge doesn't support genuine Scion owning enthusiasts that really do love their cars. It supports wannabe designers, that make stuff that the real enthusiasts will spend money on trying to emulate. It doesn't give back to the customers, it only takes their money. And the racing is not a real reflection of the car. Top teams that had the option prior, but didn't, to choose to race Scions themselves were offered a lot of money and support to either change to using a Scion platform, or make their cars look like a Scion. If you give the best teams a lot of money but a mediocre (not bad or horrible, just in the middle) platform, they will usually still win.

For context, the holder of a bunch of Unlimited FWD time-attack records, prior to the twin-winged, bazillion HP factory-backed Scion, was a factory-backed Chevy Cobalt SS.

As for this not being shown in 'ads'. It is still marketing. Ads are only a small part of marketing.

[Mr.Jay]

You have to admit tho Toyota is getting a lot of teams to do great things under the Scion name for example Chris Rado has set numerous records with his factory backed Scion, Tanner and his drift Tc but only thing is its usually just the shell of the car and everything else has been modded to the point you can't really call them Scions

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

You have to admit tho Toyota is getting a lot of teams to do great things under the Scion name for example Chris Rado has set numerous records with his factory backed Scion, Tanner and his drift Tc but only thing is its usually just the shell of the car and everything else has been modded to the point you can't really call them Scions

Rado, Papadakis (sp?), Tanner, Titan, were all on the top BEFORE Scion jumped in.

[OldSkoolToys]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Rado, Papadakis (sp?), Tanner, Titan, were all on the top BEFORE Scion jumped in.

Yeah, Tanner's just a damned good amazing driver, through and through. He could make a Yugo look like a car everyone would want to have.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Rado, Papadakis (sp?), Tanner, Titan, were all on the top BEFORE Scion jumped in.

Oh I'm aware I was just saying you have to admit Toyota givin the Tc to those guys and getting records broken under the Scion name was a well played move at tryin to give the Tc some street cred