What voids he warranty?

[Dadhawk]

Some of the other 1st86ers can step in to correct me here if I misunderstood but I thought at the Long Beach event there was discussion around the ECU being open and whether or not changing it would void the warranty. The general answer seemed to be it wasn't going to be locked and changing it was allowed.

That said I suppose if you do something stupid/crazy it could be used to disallow warranty work.

[pacent]

So many people site the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act whenever this question comes up, but think about this scenario...

what if you slap on an intake, and your transmission fails. The dealer might say, well, the transmission wasn't design to take on the extra horsepower from your aftermarket intake. They deny your warranty. Then what? You might be able to get Toyota to help you convince the dealership to help you, but what if they don't? You could take them to court, but who do you think will have the better lawyers? All the while, your car is sitting there with a broken transmission.

Long story short, anything you mod will risk part of your warranty going away. The dealership may play along and help you out, but there's always a possibility of getting screwed.

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by pacent

So many people site the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act whenever this question comes up, but think about this scenario...

what if you slap on an intake, and your transmission fails. The dealer might say, well, the transmission wasn't design to take on the extra horsepower from your aftermarket intake. They deny your warranty. Then what? You might be able to get Toyota to help you convince the dealership to help you, but what if they don't? You could take them to court, but who do you think will have the better lawyers? All the while, your car is sitting there with a broken transmission.

Long story short, anything you mod will risk part of your warranty going away. The dealership may play along and help you out, but there's always a possibility of getting screwed.

Your example is a little extreme. With manufacturer warranties, the way it works is that they diagnose the problem, then call in a "warranty rep" from the region to inspect the car and review with the techs what the cause of problem was. If they can't show a direct link, as in literally a physical link between the mod and the damage, they will likely accept your claim.

Maybe I am taking things too literally, but In the case of an aftermarket intake affecting the transmission, there would have had to be something that showed, directly, that the intake had damaged the transmission. Without a dyno in the shop (which, last I checked, most shops don't have), they can't prove that the intake is creating enough HP/torque to damage the transmission.

There has to be solid data that shows the causality, or they are opening themselves up to lawsuits.

[thill]

Originally Posted by pacent

So many people site the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act whenever this question comes up, but think about this scenario...

what if you slap on an intake, and your transmission fails. The dealer might say, well, the transmission wasn't design to take on the extra horsepower from your aftermarket intake. They deny your warranty. Then what? You might be able to get Toyota to help you convince the dealership to help you, but what if they don't? You could take them to court, but who do you think will have the better lawyers? All the while, your car is sitting there with a broken transmission.

Long story short, anything you mod will risk part of your warranty going away. The dealership may play along and help you out, but there's always a possibility of getting screwed.

People often use the Mag/Moss warranty act as ammunition, but it really depends on what you modified and what the issue is, and whether or not you would be willing to hire a lawyer if the dealer denies a claim.

I have done a lot of research on modifying cars under warranty, and what I have determined is that you should probably call your service manager at the dealer(s) where you would have your warranty work done and ask them directly.

Personally I would be very reluctant to mod the ECU on a car under warranty unless I was willing to take the risk of not having my engine covered for any type of failure.

Exhaust, intake, should be straight forward. But again, dealerships are all different. Some may see a younger guy with a car that has been modified and try to deny warranty work because they think you abused the car.

It would be nice if Toyota and Subaru offered manufacturer backed custom performance parts.

I have seen VW dealers that actually offer the ECU mod at their dealership and you retain your warranty.

[harajukukei]

Bolt on mods won't void the warranty. Cold air intake is before the MAF, cat-back exhaust is after the O2 sensors so your ECU doesn't notice them. Suspension upgrades are all reversible as well. This car doesn't really need anything else. 230-250ps should be achievable with bolt on upgrades.

After your car is well paid for and the warranty is up, there will be a plethora of turbo kits and fuel/ECU tuning options on the market to have fun with. I can see 300ps being the magic number for future 86 tuners in 3-5 years. Toyota was smart enough to know this and built a drivetrain that can handle it.

Just keep all your stock parts and be willing to re-install them if you want to take your car in to the dealer to avoid any conflict.

[pacent]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Your example is a little extreme. With manufacturer warranties, the way it works is that they diagnose the problem, then call in a "warranty rep" from the region to inspect the car and review with the techs what the cause of problem was. If they can't show a direct link, as in literally a physical link between the mod and the damage, they will likely accept your claim.

Maybe I am taking things too literally, but In the case of an aftermarket intake affecting the transmission, there would have had to be something that showed, directly, that the intake had damaged the transmission. Without a dyno in the shop (which, last I checked, most shops don't have), they can't prove that the intake is creating enough HP/torque to damage the transmission.

There has to be solid data that shows the causality, or they are opening themselves up to lawsuits.

Dealerships are independent of Subaru of America (SoA) and any warranty work they perform are paid for by Subaru to the dealership. The difference is dealerships get paid only a fraction of what they would typically get from a customer paying out of pocket. In the dealership's eyes, it is in their best interest to deny warranty work if they are busy working on other revenue generating repairs or maintenance work. Reps are only called in for major work, and that's just the dealership making sure that SoA would over the cost of the repair to the dealership, so they don't get screwed/denied payment by SoA. Neither the dealership or the SoA rep are in it for the sake of the owner of the car. They are there to get the customer and the car in and out as soon as possible since warranty work isn't a revenue generating business.

With the above example, this has happened, not saying its likely, but it has happened before. Being an Evo owner, I'm no stranger to dealerships denying warranty work. They don't have to throw any car on the dyno. They flat out just deny doing the repair. Most folks don't have a 2nd car to drive while this gets settled. You can try suing them or taking them to court, but good luck finding a lawyer to take on your (relatively) pliddly case, not to mention the added time/expenses on your side, while your car still sits there broken/depreciating away.

All I'm saying is...modify anything, and its ammunition for the dealership/SoA to deny warranty work.

[Imti]

Originally Posted by beirouty

i think it depends on the country ?

in dubai, i have read the warranty agreement toyota offers with their cars, ANY modification to the car or engine voids warranty. thats what it says on their website too.

I doubt that is accurate information for U.A.E.

Can you provide a source/link to validate that claim?

[Hanakuso]

When it comes to aftermarket parts, if the aftermarket item could have affected the item that needs to be replaced by warranty, then will most likely be rejected. For example, if you alter/tweak the ECU and the engine dies, then you probably voided warranty. If you alter/tweak the ECU and you're shocks/suspension blows out, you are still under warranty.

[beirouty]

Originally Posted by Imti

I doubt that is accurate information for U.A.E.

Can you provide a source/link to validate that claim?

hi

heres the quote

" What is not covered
Repairs and adjustments required as a result of normal wear and tear, misuse e.g. racing, overloading, negligence, modification, alteration, tampering, disconnection, improper adjustments or repairs, accident and use of add-on parts/materials. Tyres, batteries, leather, rubbers, plastics are excluded from the 4th and 5th year of Warranty cover."

i asked a guy from toyota he explained it to me like this " if you modify your car we will not fix it for you. "

from this webpage
http://www.toyota.ae/wps/portal/!ut/...vZ0FBIS9nQSEh/

[HunterGreene]

Originally Posted by pacent

Dealerships are independent of Subaru of America (SoA) and any warranty work they perform are paid for by Subaru to the dealership. The difference is dealerships get paid only a fraction of what they would typically get from a customer paying out of pocket. In the dealership's eyes, it is in their best interest to deny warranty work if they are busy working on other revenue generating repairs or maintenance work. Reps are only called in for major work, and that's just the dealership making sure that SoA would over the cost of the repair to the dealership, so they don't get screwed/denied payment by SoA. Neither the dealership or the SoA rep are in it for the sake of the owner of the car. They are there to get the customer and the car in and out as soon as possible since warranty work isn't a revenue generating business.

With the above example, this has happened, not saying its likely, but it has happened before. Being an Evo owner, I'm no stranger to dealerships denying warranty work. They don't have to throw any car on the dyno. They flat out just deny doing the repair. Most folks don't have a 2nd car to drive while this gets settled. You can try suing them or taking them to court, but good luck finding a lawyer to take on your (relatively) pliddly case, not to mention the added time/expenses on your side, while your car still sits there broken/depreciating away.

All I'm saying is...modify anything, and its ammunition for the dealership/SoA to deny warranty work.

Fair enough--sounds like my experience with Toyota has been fantastic, then. Glad I'm going for the FR-S, in that case.

Originally Posted by beirouty

hi

heres the quote

" What is not covered
Repairs and adjustments required as a result of normal wear and tear, misuse e.g. racing, overloading, negligence, modification, alteration, tampering, disconnection, improper adjustments or repairs, accident and use of add-on parts/materials. Tyres, batteries, leather, rubbers, plastics are excluded from the 4th and 5th year of Warranty cover."

i asked a guy from toyota he explained it to me like this " if you modify your car we will not fix it for you. "

For once, I'm glad I don't live in Dubai.

[thill]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Fair enough--sounds like my experience with Toyota has been fantastic, then. Glad I'm going for the FR-S, in that case.

It really comes down to your individual dealer, and to be specific, your service manager. At the end of the day this guy can make your life easy if you mod the car or very difficult. I had a very honest conversation with my service manager for my current car (Genesis Coupe) and he told me flat out that intake and exhaust should not cause any problems for a warranty claim. He told me that ECU was another story and gave me a wink...

[Lonewolf]

This might help:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4306

[beirouty]

Originally Posted by HunterGreene

Fair enough--sounds like my experience with Toyota has been fantastic, then. Glad I'm going for the FR-S, in that case.



For once, I'm glad I don't live in Dubai.

haha, i made a thread complaining about the price of the car in dubai, turns out we have the cheapest models after america of course.

some countries have them priced as much as 160,000 dollars

incase you're wondering its about 34,000 dollars for a fully loaded model.

[finch1750]

Originally Posted by pacent

So many people site the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act whenever this question comes up, but think about this scenario...

what if you slap on an intake, and your transmission fails. The dealer might say, well, the transmission wasn't design to take on the extra horsepower from your aftermarket intake. They deny your warranty. Then what? You might be able to get Toyota to help you convince the dealership to help you, but what if they don't? You could take them to court, but who do you think will have the better lawyers? All the while, your car is sitting there with a broken transmission.

Long story short, anything you mod will risk part of your warranty going away. The dealership may play along and help you out, but there's always a possibility of getting screwed.

What costs them more, to fix your car or pay their lawyers X number of hours to fight you in court? That will factor into their thought process as well.