Why I'll never buy another Toyota

[stevesnj]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Please find a quote where he clearly states that track driving is covered by warranty. The fact he says it is enhanced for track driving does not mean that it is covered for it.

That's their issue not stating that track driving is not covered. Not mine.

Also the fact he says "Enhanced for track driving" is clearly stating means that the owner can drive it on the track, it's their liability for not specifically mentioning warranty coverage either way. It's been like this since 2012 and still no disclaimer about tracking the car non competitively. If I'm wrong im wrong. I'm just gathering the facts and deciphering it and it all seems clear, at least to me, that this car, as advertised, can be taken on the track with no disclaimer either way on warranty coverage of parts failure.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

That's their issue not stating that track driving is not covered. Not mine.

Also the fact he says "Enhanced for track driving" is clearly stating means that the owner can drive it on the track, it's their liability for not specifically mentioning warranty coverage either way. It's been like this since 2012 and still no disclaimer about tracking the car non competitively. If I'm wrong im wrong. I'm just gathering the facts and deciphering it and it all seems clear, at least to me, that this car, as advertised, can be taken on the track with no disclaimer either way on warranty coverage of parts failure.

For the fourth time for those that keep saying "they should spell it out" or "they don't say we can't"


The technicality still stands that in North America, at least, they do state in the warranty "Misuse – for example, racing & competitive events, off-roading or overloading".
Now, before everybody jumps on the normal "HPDE isn't racing" bandwagon take very careful note of the use of the words "for example". Everybody likes to try to use the wording to skirt the restriction but those are only examples not the definitive list. No, HPDE is not "racing" nor "competitive" but it could still fall under there definition of misuse.




Everybody can choice to ignore that statement written clearly in the warranty but it is there. Yes, it is grey but that is on purpose.


If you want to be in the hobby of tacking then you need to be prepared to pay the costs of that hobby. The manufacturer is not responsible to cover your costs.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Everybody can choice to ignore that statement written clearly in the warranty but it is there. Yes, it is grey but that is on purpose.

Putting the car on a non-competitive track event is clearly not misuse as stated by Toyota engineers and Toyota advertising.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

In fact as late as 2016 Tada again talks about tracking the car, no disclaimer in his reply. Again he is saying the car is set up for tracking it WITHOUT disclaimer, no disclaimer in the warranty, no disclaimer when I called Toyota corporate. So with all those facts I am led to believe that when I use the car on the track my warranty is still good.

I don't think anyone (including the manufacturers) is saying that "tracking" the car invalidates the warranty. Abuse of the car, whether on the street, driven on the track, driven on the Moon or just parked in your garage can however be used to deny warranty service, even for a known and otherwise defective part.

Jack Hollis (Sr VP and President of Scion in 2013) along with the Operating VP (whose name escapes me) basically said the same thing to the First86 group. It was expected that owners would drive it with the nannies off, in track events, etc and when asked directly said none of that in itself would invalidate service under the warranty. "Abuse" however could and would. It is, after all, designed as a street vehicle.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Putting the car on a non-competitive track event is clearly not misuse as stated by Toyota engineers and Toyota advertising.

No, but there are things you can do in that situation that are.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Putting the car on a non-competitive track event is clearly not misuse as stated by Toyota engineers and Toyota advertising.

only examples not the definitive list


Apparently the warranty department does not agree and I highly doubt they will change their minds for the very small percentage of people that actually participate in such things.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

only examples not the definitive list


Apparently the warranty department does not agree and I highly doubt they will change their minds for the very small percentage of people that actually participate in such things.

Oh, I'm not arguing the wording of the warranty at all, only the definition of "misuse" as defined by Toyota in their many published materials available to consumers.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Oh, I'm not arguing the wording of the warranty at all, only the definition of "misuse" as defined by Toyota in their many published materials available to consumers.

We are back to square one where I have posted many times that the definition is whatever they feel like making it as per the wording in the warranty.


One last time. I don't agree with what they are doing but on the other hand trying to use their warranty wording and advertising as a loophole against them is not going to win anything. You guys need to just start a class action suit and see how far you get.

[ScoobsMcGee]

Thread summary for those, like me, just tuning in:

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ScoobsMcGee

Thread summary for those, like me, just tuning in:

Exactly how I feel and why I give up.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

We are back to square one where I have posted many times that the definition is whatever they feel like making it as per the wording in the warranty.

Welp, can we agree it's a shitty contract then?

You guys need to just start a class action suit and see how far you get.

I'm just glad I bought a car that's relatively easy to keep in shape for hard driving, I'll spend my Saturdays driving it as such instead of calling lawyers. I learned my lesson and just hope others can benefit from it and save some cash up front. I feel bad for those that got swindled by manufacturers who weren't as conservative designing their "sports" cars.

[Sarlacc]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Welp, can we agree it's a shitty contract then?

I don't agree.

As I've said before:

Originally Posted by Sarlacc

There's a difference between what the car is designed for and what the legal contract of warranty covers. This should not be a surprise.
The car is designed to be easy to modify and to be fun on the track. You do those things on your own risk. If you don't, there's good warranty coverage. Seems fair to me.

Have you seen how some people treat their cars on the tracks? It's perfectly reasonable not to give everyone carte blanche to trash their cars without voiding the warranty.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Sarlacc

Have you seen how some people treat their cars on the tracks? It's perfectly reasonable not to give everyone carte blanche to trash their cars without voiding the warranty.

I think you'll find if we went through a litmus test together we would likely 99% agree, per an earlier post of mine:

Originally Posted by strat61caster

This isn't "waah my car broke fix it"

This is, "hey you have a known design/manufacturing issue, please replace/update my faulty parts" and the dealership saying "oh that's not a manufacturer fault, that's your fault"

Coil packs, ecu tune, throw out bearing, axle nuts, other miscellaneous parts that for some reason fell apart early (like that girls fuel pump). They are all unexpected deficiencies in the car whether they're tracked or not.

Edit: cam timing issues as well

For example I don't think Toyobaru should warranty a moneyshift, but that is irregardless of track usage or not. I think Toyobaru should step up and replace things that have not performed as expected under reasonable conditions, and imo hitting the track/autox with this car is a reasonable use case.

I'll admit, "misuse" is an excellent word to choose, but there's a big gap in interpretation when it comes to sports cars, what the manufacturer claims the car can do, and the actual customer service we receive when it comes down to it. I just wish it was more explicit, hell I'd rather they say "no closed circuit performance driving" and be done with it, at least I would have known when I bought the car I would be SOL for the issues I've had and I sure as hell wouldn't be bitching about it now.

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by TrackRider54

Me too my friend.

Funny story about track days. I was doing a track day on a motorcycle I used to have. It quit running leaving me stranded on the side of the track waiting on the crash truck. The owner of the dealer I bought the bike from was at the same track day. He helped me get an appointment scheduled to get it fixed in his service department.

Not all manufacturers are butt holes. Below is a letter I wrote to the president of a motorcycle company. I later visited the headquarters and found my letter posted in the break room for the employees to read.

That's really awesome!