Why I'll never buy another Toyota

[Hags86]

Hi All

Just wanted to share my experience of dealing with Toyota. A summary is I had a direct injector seal pop and they would not cover it under warranty as I'd "shifted too fast at high RPM". Despite there being a software fix that would avoid this issue in future they declined to honour the warranty.
Anyway I took them to VCAT (basically a petty claims court in Victoria, Australia) and they folded before the hearing and covered the fix under warranty.

I then wrote to them to seek clarification if "high performance driver education and/or track day" participation would void my warranty. They refused to answer and called this type of activity "Misuse and negligence" according to their definitions.

I attach a copy of their letter. Read it for yourself.

Whilst think Toyota make great cars, that's not the point. I wasn't even annoyed that I'd had the problem - if they'd just accepted the warranty claim I'd be a happy customer who would have gladly returned. But instead they argued with me for months, wouldn't return calls etc. Basically they are a pack of ****s as far as I'm concerned and I'll never buy another Toyota car for the rest of my natural born life.

[NOI]

Sorry for your experience, that sucks.

I can tell you that lots of people using Toyota vehicles over the years have had warranty repairs on cars used in those modes of operation. And for what it's worth, the letter basically says, "We won't make blanket statements that will get us sued by unscrupulous people, and every case is different, because every situation and driver is different."

That's what I read between the lines anyway.

Completely reasonable if you ask me, and likely the policy of most auto manufacturers of a $30k sports car or similar.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by NOI

and likely the policy of most auto manufacturers of a $30k sports car or similar.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_tjM8eEqUo"]Mazda commercial - YouTube[/ame]

[Hags86]

Originally Posted by NOI

Sorry for your experience, that sucks.

I can tell you that lots of people using Toyota vehicles over the years have had warranty repairs on cars used in those modes of operation. And for what it's worth, the letter basically says, "We won't make blanket statements that will get us sued by unscrupulous people, and every case is different, because every situation and driver is different."

That's what I read between the lines anyway.

Completely reasonable if you ask me, and likely the policy of most auto manufacturers of a $30k sports car or similar.

I think it’s OK for Toyota to have some reasonable protections. They shouldn’t have to warranty the car under all circumstances. We know there are idiots out there...

If they said warranty is void if the car is used:
- For competitive motorsport. Fair enough I say.
- On offroad dirt terrain. Fair enough I say.
- Without due care and maintenance. Again, fair enough.

But my question was “will you void my warranty if I do HDPE?” and they said it’s “Misuse and neglect” as defined by the owners handbook. Really?

Here is how they advertised the car in Australia (quotes from their website):

The 86 shares DNA with some of the most exciting track-proven sports car ever made and it was tested on track at key stages of its development.

The car's performance was tested on gruelling tracks such as Fuji Speedway and Shibets in Japan and the Nürburgring in Germany

The 86 has been tested on tough test tracks like the Nürburgring to make sure it offers the highest levels of reliability and performance in all kinds of conditions.

But if you do HDPE then that is “Misuse and neglect”?

Remember the context here. I had a seal pop due to an engine leaning out at high revs on my second HPDE day and they would not warranty it, but a new engine map they released prevents this problem - sounds like a warranty issue. Hell, their policy is to not to even tell my why they refused the claim. Their response was "ask the dealer" and the dealer said "Toyota won't allow us to tell you why they rejected the claim". It's only one of the mechanics at the dealer who told me on the down-low that they rejected it because the car was 'raced' when it fact it had not been.

I just wanted to be treated with respect during the process. They refused to tell me why they rejected the claim (but eventually did honour it), invented a new policy on the fly (HDPE = misuse and neglect), etc. Like I said - great car, terrible company.

[alan.chalkley]

Exactly why i bought a brz instead , my local toyota dealer can't even succeed in fixing my camry.
So how could they possibly fix a subaru boxer engine?

[JD001]

Found this on the 'Singapore' thread. I wonder how Toyota describe the actions portrayed in the advert?

[Scrappydoo]

Pass around the Kleenex ladies.

[NOI]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Not sure the warranty correlary you're attempting to make is here, as it isn't mentioned at all, but they sure aren't bashful about their engineering philosophy (or at least the marketing aspect of it).

It does bum me out a bit that their market share in general is so small to the general public. They do make great cars most of the time.

[TheRoops]

To be fair, advertising that this car is fun to push to extremes does not continue to say that they'll cover it under warranty if you do. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that they're implying that you can feel free to do so with your disposable income. As someone in legal, the warranty read like many product in that you're covered for using the product under regular use and the rest is on you. I used to mod phones and test custom software and I had no inclination that they'd cover my warranty. Heck, Samsung advertises the water resistance of their phones but water damage is still not covered under warranty and I'd imagine it's the same with the newest iPhone. It's a use at your own risk thing. Products are made for rich people to use for fun disposably.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by JD001

Found this on the 'Singapore' thread. I wonder how Toyota describe the actions portrayed in the advert?

Toyota the company that engineered a cool sports car? "Awesome use your car!"

Your local service writer and regional rep? "We're not covering that"

Different entities, unfortunately one matters more than the other when it comes to keeping your car on the road.

Originally Posted by TheRoops

To be fair, advertising that this car is fun to push to extremes does not continue to say that they'll cover it under warranty if you do.

https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/medi...th-advertising

http://blackflag.jalopnik.com/corvet...-be-1796070293

They advertised the fact that it has trunk space for a set of track tires, bullshit they didn't advertise this thing as track capable.

Edit: Here's a video currently on Scion's Youtube channel. I'm not saying they should cover everything, but using HPDE/Autox as an excuse is bullshit.

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1VBVMpK6BCk"]Scion FR-S Testimonial - YouTube[/ame]


Edit 2: Promo video advertising trunk space for tires and tools for track days with footage of an FR-S sliding around a track. (~2 mins in if you're impatient)


[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yGntMe***M"]2016 Scion FR-S Walkaround [Exterior & Interior] (Scion) - YouTube[/ame]

[FR-Sky]

If I were you, I wouldnt say I do track or autox. It is like telling your insurance "Oh I crashed on track and autox, and I want claim."
I do track too, but when I have problem with my car, I keep my mouth shut and claim my warranty, but I think they know my car is not stock cus the exterior told them so.
I had my rear axle replace cus the loosen axle nut under 36k warranty with no hustle.
Might as well to go to other dealership if having problem in the future.

[BRZnut]

I still cant see how they can advertise the car as track ready and even put a button in the car that says "track mode" and then deny claims based on the fact the car was driven aggressively on a track. Seems like a good attorney could make a case for false advertising.

Doesn't the FTC in the US regulate this sort of thing? Some one who has been screwed by their dealer in the US should file a complaint and see what happens.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by BRZnut

I still cant see how they can advertise the car as track ready and even put a button in the car that says "track mode" and then deny claims based on the fact the car was driven aggressively on a track. Seems like a good attorney could make a case for false advertising.

Doesn't the FTC in the US regulate this sort of thing? Some one who has been screwed by their dealer in the US should file a complaint and see what happens.

There should be a middle ground someplace but since both sides on the issue want to dig in and have it all one way or the other it could be difficult to agree as to what that is.


The fact that the car is driven aggressively on the track should not be an issue if it is completely stock and as designed. I can see where mods could cause a warranty issue. If you change the tires and then blow an axle is it really the fault of the manufacturer? The car was designed and tested on the track in a certain configuration if you change anything out of that configuration then the responsibility for repairs should fall on you.


Driving aggressively and making a mistake that causes damage are not the same thing. You can drive hard on a track and never have an issue or you can slide the car into the grass or miss shift and blow the engine. Should the warranty cover these instances? Contrary to popular belief warranty costs are not eaten by the manufacturer but passed onto the consumer. People complain about how much new cars cost but then want their screw ups paid for. I for one do not want to pay for guys that damage their cars at a track.


Little doubt that for every person that was "screwed by the dealer" there is at least one that did or at least attempted too screw the dealer for repairs on issues they created themselves. How many time have we read "turboed my car and blew the engine so am going back to stock for warranty" on here? It is a two sided issue and not just a case of the evil company picking on the poor little guy.

[TheRoops]

Originally Posted by BRZnut

I still cant see how they can advertise the car as track ready and even put a button in the car that says "track mode" and then deny claims based on the fact the car was driven aggressively on a track. Seems like a good attorney could make a case for false advertising.

Doesn't the FTC in the US regulate this sort of thing? Some one who has been screwed by their dealer in the US should file a complaint and see what happens.

How would it be false advertising? They aren't advertising their bumper to bumper track day warranty, they're advertising a car. Many high performance products are capable of things that aren't covered by the product's warranty.

Overclocking computers is very effective when done properly and also is usually not covered under the warranty, yet they still inform you on the box that it is capable of overclocking. You're confusing what you would like versus what they offer.

The terms of the warranty are not required to match the capability of the product, no matter how much we would appreciate it.