MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I always thought the miata was a cheap car and I remember when I found out how much it cost and thought to myself how I would never pay that money for it.

And the BRZ is not a cheap car? Seriously? You price shopped a loaded BRZ against a real performance car lately?

MX5 used to be your only option for a reasonably priced sportscar. Now there is a choice. The two basic differences now are roof or no roof and McPherson struts up front or double control arm. Either car can be made faster quite cheaply and, at the end of the day, they will remain approximately equal, apart from those two aspects.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

The explicit reason is that that level of speed differential is as good as what R&T and my personal experience garnered on a 200TW Extreme performance summer and Auto Sport made no claims that the two tires were tested back to back.

Hell, there's >3s between the BRZ Primacy/S004/RE11A video and the 86 vs MX-5 RF video on the same track with the same tires with the same driver. The '17 86 on Primacy was faster than the '14 BRZ on RE-11A's. I think we'd both agree that on the same day the '14 BRZ with RE11A's would be faster.

Sorry I just don't believe that a Max Performance Summer tire (~300TW) is worth 2s over a ~90s course when tested back to back with the Primacy and it's counter to everything I've figured out about tires. I know it's irrelevant but you know how it is.





Wish I had gotten video of my fast session at Laguna with the Primacy to compare to my ZIISS The only video I have is me being held up by a lot of pretty cars driven slowly and like 1 clean lap which is like 2:03

The 2017 BRZ will be faster than the 2014 on the same tires on the same day. By quite a bit I predict though nobody has actually done that so far.

The Primacy is possibly the best touring summer tire out there but it is no match for a max performance summer tire. On any car.

[Celica00]

Originally Posted by Gforce

Exactly, I'm pretty sure you cannot "similarly option out" these two cars. I know which one I'd rather be found upside down in. In my BRZ it would be an EMT with a useful ride. In the MX5 it would be a different time if professional entirely with a vehicle not useful to me.

They both have similar options (weather packages, wheel locks, etc). So yes, they can be similarly optioned out. That doesn't mean they are similar. Just the basic options most dealers offer.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

I always thought the miata was a cheap car and I remember when I found out how much it cost and thought to myself how I would never pay that money for it.

Name another car you can buy new with a warranty that weighs under 2,500 lbs with double wishbone suspension and full alignment capability from the factory on all four corners. Hell, I'll take anything under 3,000 lbs actually.

The only alternative that comes to my mind is finding a new Lotus at double the price. If you're willing to eat dealing with strut front suspension and spending extra money on parts for alignment the 86, Alfa 4C and a Cayman come into play. The Miata is in a league of it's own imo and that rarely comes across in journalist reviews where 99% of the readership will only know a racetrack via watching it on a screen.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

No they made it sound like it's a cheap sports car so I thought it was about 20-25K cad, but then I found it was almost double that. Just because something doesn't have an alternative, doesn't make it worth the asking price for me personally.

[StraightOuttaCanadaEh]

Originally Posted by Gforce

And the BRZ is not a cheap car? Seriously? You price shopped a loaded BRZ against a real performance car lately?

MX5 used to be your only option for a reasonably priced sportscar. Now there is a choice. The two basic differences now are roof or no roof and McPherson struts up front or double control arm. Either car can be made faster quite cheaply and, at the end of the day, they will remain approximately equal, apart from those two aspects.

No I was saying the Miata is not reasonably priced. I would never pay what they're asking for it. It's overpriced.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Name another car you can buy new with a warranty that weighs under 2,500 lbs with double wishbone suspension and full alignment capability from the factory on all four corners. Hell, I'll take anything under 3,000 lbs actually.

The only alternative that comes to my mind is finding a new Lotus at double the price. If you're willing to eat dealing with strut front suspension and spending extra money on parts for alignment the 86, Alfa 4C and a Cayman come into play. The Miata is in a league of it's own imo and that rarely comes across in journalist reviews where 99% of the readership will only know a racetrack via watching it on a screen.

THIS^. I love the fact that everything is adjustable from the factory. While it may be a bit spartan in terms of practicality or utility, you get quite a lot of good stuff underneath the skin you can't see.

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

No I was saying the Miata is not reasonably priced. I would never pay what they're asking for it. It's overpriced.

I do agree that the price is a bit steep. 30k for a miata with some leather seats is a bit crazy.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

No they made it sound like it's a cheap sports car so I thought it was about 20-25K cad, but then I found it was almost double that. Just because something doesn't have an alternative, doesn't make it worth the asking price for me personally.

It's incredibly cheap for the level of engineering put into it, cars with similar levels of effort cost double and triple what the Miata does and most carry more compromises towards performance.

Right, it's not built for you personally, just like I don't get the appeal of a $50k USD truck, some people will never shell out for a new Miata. Thankfully they've been building them for almost 30 years and there's plenty affordable used ones available.

[df.dima]

Since StraightOuttaCanadaEh is from Canada eh, I'll just chip in to make a point.
Yes Miata is cheaper than Lotus, Cayman etc, but it is pricey in Canada. I could never stomach it as "good" value, even if it does bring all these good things to the table. When FRS came out, NC value proposition looked even worse.
If I remember correctly, NC range was about 29-39k. Now ND lists at 32k to 39 for GT.
An 86 now is 29 to start. Used to be 26k as Scion when I got it.

In US pricing is very close to start, so basically ND starts at 25 and up to 30 for GT. While 86 is 26k to start.

[Atropine]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It's incredibly cheap for the level of engineering put into it, cars with similar levels of effort cost double and triple what the Miata does and most carry more compromises towards performance.

Right, it's not built for you personally, just like I don't get the appeal of a $50k USD truck, some people will never shell out for a new Miata. Thankfully they've been building them for almost 30 years and there's plenty affordable used ones available.

I LOVE my 1991 Miata that I bought from my Grandpa.

I had been lusting after this particular car since I was 11 years old, so it was cool keeping it in the family.

[Entroper]

I look forward to the rematch with next year's BRZ tS. We'll see how the MPSS does then. I think it won't be a huge margin, but the tS will end up the clear winner.

I can say the ND on S001s feels plenty grippy enough, and the BRZ on Primacies didn't. Some of that is also down to the ND's softer suspension and lighter weight, with nearly the same size tire. Regardless, we got Star Specs for the wife's BRZ and left the stock tires on the ND.

I find the RF to be reasonably priced, but the Brembo+BBS package isn't worth it IMO and always seems to be included in these tests. Regardless, it starts at $31,500 because there is no base model, it's only Club or GT. And I mean, come on, it has a power retracting hard top. If you don't want that, I don't recommend you pay more for an RF.

And no Miata is reasonably priced in Canada, or ESPECIALLY Australia. I don't know what's up with those markets that makes Mazdas so much more expensive relative to other makes.

[brz-times]

Originally Posted by Entroper

I look forward to the rematch with next year's BRZ tS. We'll see how the MPSS does then. I think it won't be a huge margin, but the tS will end up the clear winner.

I can say the ND on S001s feels plenty grippy enough, and the BRZ on Primacies didn't. Some of that is also down to the ND's softer suspension and lighter weight, with nearly the same size tire. Regardless, we got Star Specs for the wife's BRZ and left the stock tires on the ND.

I find the RF to be reasonably priced, but the Brembo+BBS package isn't worth it IMO and always seems to be included in these tests. Regardless, it starts at $31,500 because there is no base model, it's only Club or GT. And I mean, come on, it has a power retracting hard top. If you don't want that, I don't recommend you pay more for an RF.

And no Miata is reasonably priced in Canada, or ESPECIALLY Australia. I don't know what's up with those markets that makes Mazdas so much more expensive relative to other makes.

its also one of reason to go with BRZ. Now I'm thinking it was great choice me. I really like my BRZ


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Celica00

They both have similar options (weather packages, wheel locks, etc). So yes, they can be similarly optioned out. That doesn't mean they are similar. Just the basic options most dealers offer.

I was only referring to the fact that the BRZ has a steel roof structure. That is not on the Mazda option list.

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by StraightOuttaCanadaEh

No I was saying the Miata is not reasonably priced. I would never pay what they're asking for it. It's overpriced.

Cost recovery versus sales volume. Their makers have to earn a profit on each unit sold or they will stop making them. Believe me, if they could lower the price they would.

Either of these Japanese sportscars is a bargain compared to any of the alternatives.

Canada will always pay through the nose for cars since we insist on each manufacturer complying with our own special set of car making regulations and testing process. You can find out how stupidly expensive that is when you try to import a car from the USA. Even cars made in Canada for export to the USA are priced up to 20% less when sold there than when sold here. Exact same car.

Canada needs its own car regulations and testing facilities? I think not. If our government actually cared about consumer pricing we would open our markets to cars complying with either the US or EU regulations and simply abandonment our own redundant system of regulation. Many other consumer products suffer from the same idiotic bureaucracy.