'17 Toyota 86 vs '17 Maza MX-5 - Page 2 - Toyota GR86, 86, FR-S and Subaru BRZ Forum & Owners Community

Tcoat · 06-03-2017, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule

How am I demonstrating bias? I own an FRS. Get off your horse bud, I've seen you all over this forum poking and prodding people.

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How am I poking or prodding you? I have a different viewpoint and asked you to explain yours. You did. I countered with mine.
How are you demonstrating bias? You are dripping in it.
So you don't like the boxer? Fine but that does not mean others should not nor that the decades old tech of the S2000 is better. They are just your preference not etched in stone fact.

Mule · 06-03-2017, 03:58 PM

Sure. Thanks for the spirited inquiry into my preferences.

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Woodman316 · 06-04-2017, 06:59 PM

Not alot of storage in my BRZ, but no glovebox in the RF, WTF.

revaholic · 06-07-2017, 07:41 PM

In this day and age I am coming to appreciate the FA20's relative lack of refinement. And that sounds like a backhanded compliment but it's not. Even compact cars today feel like the luxury cars of last decade in refinement. In a sports car I definitely want more character. Full disclosure I haven't driven the Miata but there's something to be said for a motor that is not particularly tame.

Canehda · 06-07-2017, 08:08 PM

im not a fan of how high up the centre console is on the miata as well as the high shifter and ebrake which feels far away...

Both are great cars but deciding between them is a completely subjective decision. For a lot of objective reasons the miata is a better car but I think a lot of us can agree the brz ticks the subjective boxes.

Yoshoobaroo · 06-07-2017, 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by revaholic

In this day and age I am coming to appreciate the FA20's relative lack of refinement. And that sounds like a backhanded compliment but it's not. Even compact cars today feel like the luxury cars of last decade in refinement. In a sports car I definitely want more character. Full disclosure I haven't driven the Miata but there's something to be said for a motor that is not particularly tame.

I love the fact that this motor is like an angry little bee. The whole car just feels alive when you rev it until the valves dance around on the hood!

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wparsons · 06-07-2017, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mule

Would have bought a Miata instead of FRS if it had 2 back seats - not that I'm regretting FRS purchase, but that inline four is special, and it's likely 1 of 4-5 cars produced that feels discernibly lighter than the FRS.

Miata ride, motor and tranny w/ FRS chassis would be damn close to a perfect car...

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The miata suspension is better than ours, and it's quite sturdy for a convertible. A true hardtop miata would be a noticeably better chassis than we have.

Mule · 06-08-2017, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons

The miata suspension is better than ours, and it's quite sturdy for a convertible. A true hardtop miata would be a noticeably better chassis than we have.

And if my aunt had a **** she'd be my uncle.

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Gforce · 06-18-2017, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wparsons

The miata suspension is better than ours, and it's quite sturdy for a convertible. A true hardtop miata would be a noticeably better chassis than we have.

That's quite a bold claim. What makes the Mazda better?

wparsons · 06-18-2017, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gforce

That's quite a bold claim. What makes the Mazda better?

No machperson struts for one...

Gforce · 06-18-2017, 09:02 PM

McPherson struts are a pretty elegant engineering solution for any road car. Colin Chapman liked them. Porsche likes them. They hold an alignment for a very long time and take a pounding without needing adjustments. Do you know if any specific advantages to an upper wishbone at the front, other than packaging? The Mazda uses the same L shaped front lower control arm as McPherson struts use.

Multi link work well at the rear for packaging reasons and outperform double wishbone handily. Which would be why Mazda changed to that setup for the NC and RX8.

wparsons · 06-18-2017, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gforce

McPherson struts are a pretty elegant engineering solution for any road car. Colin Chapman liked them. Porsche likes them. They hold an alignment for a very long time and take a pounding without needing adjustments. Do you know if any specific advantages to an upper wishbone at the front, other than packaging? The Mazda uses the same L shaped front lower control arm as McPherson struts use.

Multi link work well at the rear for packaging reasons and outperform double wishbone handily. Which would be why Mazda changed to that setup for the NC and RX8.

Way better camber curves to start... You can run a lot less static camber and still have equal corner grip with double wishbones or multi link setups.

You can definitely get good grip out of mac struts, but they're more about packaging efficiency than performance.

The L shape of the LCA doesn't do anything except create space for the wheel when turned.

nikitopo · 06-19-2017, 08:18 AM

McPherson struts have been used for decades in racing with success. The key point is to have a good strut tower brace. I've a discussion in the past here and not many understand how this brace works or saying that there is no tower/chassis flexing in our cars.

Gforce · 06-19-2017, 09:36 AM

BRZ has a fairly effective triangulated strut brace, stock. I notice the bracing has been increased in size for 2017.

BRZ McPherson struts are fairly vertical which addresses the minor difference in camber curves.

I think the point I'm trying to make is that the MX5 supposed advantage comes from Bridgestone PP S001 tires as compared to the Primacy.

06-04-2017, 06:59 PM	#17
Woodman316 Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Drives: 2017 BRZ World Rally Blue Location: GTA Posts: 39 Thanks: 0 Thanked 1 Time in 1 Post Mentioned: 0 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Not alot of storage in my BRZ, but no glovebox in the RF, WTF. __________________ TRD Exhaust,K&N Drop in,FS Zeta intake tube 76mm

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06-03-2017, 03:58 PM	#16
Mule Banned Join Date: May 2017 Drives: 2013 FRS Location: Toronto Posts: 87 Thanks: 21 Thanked 27 Times in 18 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	Sure. Thanks for the spirited inquiry into my preferences. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

06-07-2017, 07:41 PM	#18
revaholic Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Drives: 2016 Ablaze Scion FR-S Location: Toronto Posts: 76 Thanks: 8 Thanked 36 Times in 22 Posts Mentioned: 1 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	In this day and age I am coming to appreciate the FA20's relative lack of refinement. And that sounds like a backhanded compliment but it's not. Even compact cars today feel like the luxury cars of last decade in refinement. In a sports car I definitely want more character. Full disclosure I haven't driven the Miata but there's something to be said for a motor that is not particularly tame.

06-07-2017, 08:08 PM	#19
Canehda poverty cause racecar Join Date: Oct 2013 Drives: Subaru BRZ JRSC'd Location: Mississauga, Canada Posts: 792 Thanks: 154 Thanked 433 Times in 250 Posts Mentioned: 19 Post(s) Tagged: 1 Thread(s)	im not a fan of how high up the centre console is on the miata as well as the high shifter and ebrake which feels far away... Both are great cars but deciding between them is a completely subjective decision. For a lot of objective reasons the miata is a better car but I think a lot of us can agree the brz ticks the subjective boxes.

06-18-2017, 09:02 PM	#25
Gforce Banned Join Date: Mar 2017 Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Location: Alberta Posts: 519 Thanks: 39 Thanked 162 Times in 109 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	McPherson struts are a pretty elegant engineering solution for any road car. Colin Chapman liked them. Porsche likes them. They hold an alignment for a very long time and take a pounding without needing adjustments. Do you know if any specific advantages to an upper wishbone at the front, other than packaging? The Mazda uses the same L shaped front lower control arm as McPherson struts use. Multi link work well at the rear for packaging reasons and outperform double wishbone handily. Which would be why Mazda changed to that setup for the NC and RX8.

06-19-2017, 08:18 AM	#27
nikitopo Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Drives: '15 BRZ RA Location: Greece Posts: 3,787 Thanks: 2,417 Thanked 1,947 Times in 1,263 Posts Mentioned: 29 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	McPherson struts have been used for decades in racing with success. The key point is to have a good strut tower brace. I've a discussion in the past here and not many understand how this brace works or saying that there is no tower/chassis flexing in our cars.

06-19-2017, 09:36 AM	#28
Gforce Banned Join Date: Mar 2017 Drives: 2013 Subaru BRZ Location: Alberta Posts: 519 Thanks: 39 Thanked 162 Times in 109 Posts Mentioned: 5 Post(s) Tagged: 0 Thread(s)	BRZ has a fairly effective triangulated strut brace, stock. I notice the bracing has been increased in size for 2017. BRZ McPherson struts are fairly vertical which addresses the minor difference in camber curves. I think the point I'm trying to make is that the MX5 supposed advantage comes from Bridgestone PP S001 tires as compared to the Primacy.

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