LEGIT: Electric Compressor + larger Turbocharger Borg Warner released last month

[SStratos]

LEGIT: electric supercharger mated to larger turbocharger from BorgWarner...




in 2016 BW's R&D department put out this video of what their team was working on, but just last month they had the below press release that they are really REALLY in mass production for this technology now!!!!! Twin-charging isn't new but using an electric centrifugal compressor(supercharger) is revolutionary and it will save you fuel and pollute less.




[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXWAPNOAuv0"]eBooster® Electrically Driven Compressor - YouTube[/ame]




https://www.borgwarner.com/en/news-m...rates-premiere

[DAEMANO]

This looks to be an OEM product. I didn't see anything that pointed to the aftermarket.

If it is aftermarket, then great! A mass produced version of the Phantom ESC in a twin charge configuration. If OEM, then we'll have to wait for mfgs to choose whether to use them or not.

[SStratos]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

This looks to be an OEM product. I didn't see anything that pointed to the aftermarket.

If it is aftermarket, then great! A mass produced version of the Phantom ESC in a twin charge configuration. If OEM, then we'll have to wait for mfgs to choose whether to use them or not.

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Borg Warner usually makes all of it's products accessible, to at the very least, it's licensed dealers/mechanics licensed to purchase and install their systems.

ATM there may not be enough production currently to supply more than the OEM suppliers, but that will change in time.

I just purchased my 2017 last November so I'm in no hurry to FI my car just yet. Going to do breaks and suspension and bushings first.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by SStratos

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think Borg Warner usually makes all of it's products accessible, to at the very least, it's licensed dealers/mechanics licensed to purchase and install their systems.

ATM there may not be enough production currently to supply more than the OEM suppliers, but that will change in time.

I just purchased my 2017 last November so I'm in no hurry to FI my car just yet. Going to do breaks and suspension and bushings first.

The verbiage on their website seems to suggest their aftermarket offerings are separate from the others and this item doesn't appear on their aftermarket portal (yet).

https://www.borgwarner.com/en/aftermarket

I would be surprised if this device was offered to the aftermarket simply because of the additional electronics needed for throttle, and battery management (charge/recharge) to power a 48 volt device, but who knows? Also, tuning for this will take some work, but is obviously viable.

Between what we have now and full E.V.s, electric super/turbocharging is definitely a viable solution. I've been running my non sequential 24 volt setup for over 2 years now and love it.

[fang_gt86]

It may improve the "turbo lag" but now there are more parts to to break.. I guess simplicity and power doesn't mix.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

It may improve the "turbo lag" but now there are more parts to to break.. I guess simplicity and power doesn't mix.

Tell that to the people invented twin turbos, boxer engines with two heads and 4 cams, dual clutch transmissions, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 speed transmissions, direct injection engines, multiport fuel injection, 4 stroke engines, etc... I'm not an engineer, but it's their job to make it reliable/efficient, not mine. I just buy the cars.

[fang_gt86]

Originally Posted by swarb

Tell that to the people invented twin turbos, boxer engines with two heads and 4 cams, dual clutch transmissions, 2,3,4,5,6,7,8 speed transmissions, direct injection engines, multiport fuel injection, 4 stroke engines, etc... I'm not an engineer, but it's their job to make it reliable/efficient, not mine. I just buy the cars.

I'm all in if it's reliable.

[swarb]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

I'm all in if it's reliable.

Reliable is relative, it just needs to last past the warranty. If one guy (phantom superchargers) can make a reliable product, I have no doubts that borg warner can do the same if not better.

[TachyonBomb]

Originally Posted by fang_gt86

It may improve the "turbo lag"

No it really wont.

Originally Posted by SStratos

Twin-charging isn't new but using an electric centrifugal compressor(supercharger) is revolutionary and it will save you fuel and pollute less.

Nope sorry not revolutionary at all, won't save fuel and won't pollute less.

I had an electric supercharger on my 2004 evo 8 back in 2004-2005.

It was created and to act as a device to help the low end tq and help pre-spool the turbo.

It was on my car while it had the factory turbo and an AVO turbo kit that made use of a turbo in the GT30 family.

The electric turbo was a huge paper weight. It did very little to pre-spool the gt30 or factory evo turbo and would easily get drowned out one the main turbo started to come online. Gas mileage didn't improve. Anyone that is familiar with tuning knows that spooling/adding more air = gas is needed. So even with a low positive psi the engine is having air added into it (getting lean) and more fuel is needed to counteract the leaning effect of adding more air. Since you are adding more gas due to more air you technically are doing the opposite of not polluting. :-P lol

It's funny that people are still attempting this. By the time I started getting active in the evo community shiv/vishnu was toning down his presence in that community but I figured he would have been aware of my car and its electric supercharger days. From one evo OG to another I was really surprised to see him revisit this idea as it didn't go down to well back in the day.

If you want faster spool all of these does a better job:
Anti-lag
Timing changes
Timing changes with respect to your (no lift shift) settings
Cams
Larger throttle body
Larger intake manifold
More displacement
-the previous 4 hint at better air flow in the system
-more air in = more exhaust gas to spin turbine = earlier spooling
-earlier denser air introduced in the system is the idea the E-turbo is based on in its relation to pre-spooling.

Though I must add that electric motor and battery technology has improved in the past 14 years. But in relation to a car like the evo or brz you are still limited by battery/recharging options. At the moment the best application for an E-turbo would be in a hybrid car. The E-turbo would benefit from the larger electrical potential those cars due to their batteries and recharge rates. Imagine if one to electric hub components which spins the wheels on a koenigsegg regara or mclaren p1 was focused into a spinning turbine application... it would prove to be a fun little hybrid hack to play with. (think civic hybrid with an electric powered gt35 intake wheel shoved into the intake system. You could literally flip a switch to go from turbo lag save my drivetrain characteristics to supercharger 100% on all the time beast mode characteristics.

[phrosty]

mmm electric twincharger.

[DAEMANO]

Originally Posted by TachyonBomb

No it really wont.

Nope sorry not revolutionary at all, won't save fuel and won't pollute less.

I had an electric supercharger on my 2004 evo 8 back in 2004-2005.

It was created and to act as a device to help the low end tq and help pre-spool the turbo.

It was on my car while it had the factory turbo and an AVO turbo kit that made use of a turbo in the GT30 family.

The electric turbo was a huge paper weight. It did very little to pre-spool the gt30 or factory evo turbo and would easily get drowned out one the main turbo started to come online. Gas mileage didn't improve. Anyone that is familiar with tuning knows that spooling/adding more air = gas is needed. So even with a low positive psi the engine is having air added into it (getting lean) and more fuel is needed to counteract the leaning effect of adding more air. Since you are adding more gas due to more air you technically are doing the opposite of not polluting. :-P lol

It's funny that people are still attempting this. By the time I started getting active in the evo community shiv/vishnu was toning down his presence in that community but I figured he would have been aware of my car and its electric supercharger days. From one evo OG to another I was really surprised to see him revisit this idea as it didn't go down to well back in the day.

If you want faster spool all of these does a better job:
Anti-lag, Timing changes, Timing changes with respect to your (no lift shift) settings, Cams, Larger throttle body, Larger intake manifold, More displacement
-the previous 4 hint at better air flow in the system
-more air in = more exhaust gas to spin turbine = earlier spooling
-earlier denser air introduced in the system is the idea the E-turbo is based on in its relation to pre-spooling.

Though I must add that electric motor and battery technology has improved in the past 14 years. But in relation to a car like the evo or brz you are still limited by battery/recharging options. At the moment the best application for an E-turbo would be in a hybrid car. The E-turbo would benefit from the larger electrical potential those cars due to their batteries and recharge rates. Imagine if one to electric hub components which spins the wheels on a koenigsegg regara or mclaren p1 was focused into a spinning turbine application... it would prove to be a fun little hybrid hack to play with. (think civic hybrid with an electric powered gt35 intake wheel shoved into the intake system. You could literally flip a switch to go from turbo lag save my drivetrain characteristics to supercharger 100% on all the time beast mode characteristics.

Thanks for the input from a decade ago. Happy to say that your experiences didn't remain the same. My guess is that you were running the best tech available in those days. Times have changed (A LOT.) You should definitely take some time to read up on what's new. As of today there many people (well in the hundreds) driving electrically supercharged 86/FR-S/BRZ's and MX-5's in single charge configurations. Twin charging using the similar tech with a turbo is not only feasible, but inevitable.

[Teseo]

Sounds like hybrid, high end cars have the same idea but with electric engine for low end and gas engine later. Wish they produce a nice E-sc with more boost, 8-10 psi would be tempting

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

The verbiage on their website seems to suggest their aftermarket offerings are separate from the others and this item doesn't appear on their aftermarket portal (yet).

https://www.borgwarner.com/en/aftermarket

I would be surprised if this device was offered to the aftermarket simply because of the additional electronics needed for throttle, and battery management (charge/recharge) to power a 48 volt device, but who knows? Also, tuning for this will take some work, but is obviously viable.

Between what we have now and full E.V.s, electric super/turbocharging is definitely a viable solution. I've been running my non sequential 24 volt setup for over 2 years now and love it.

It looked to me like the electronics were built in and were basically based on boost from the primary compressor.

Jaden

[WRBrzRX]

Originally Posted by TachyonBomb

No it really wont.




Nope sorry not revolutionary at all, won't save fuel and won't pollute less.

I had an electric supercharger on my 2004 evo 8 back in 2004-2005.

It was created and to act as a device to help the low end tq and help pre-spool the turbo.

It was on my car while it had the factory turbo and an AVO turbo kit that made use of a turbo in the GT30 family.

The electric turbo was a huge paper weight. It did very little to pre-spool the gt30 or factory evo turbo and would easily get drowned out one the main turbo started to come online. Gas mileage didn't improve. Anyone that is familiar with tuning knows that spooling/adding more air = gas is needed. So even with a low positive psi the engine is having air added into it (getting lean) and more fuel is needed to counteract the leaning effect of adding more air. Since you are adding more gas due to more air you technically are doing the opposite of not polluting. :-P lol

It's funny that people are still attempting this. By the time I started getting active in the evo community shiv/vishnu was toning down his presence in that community but I figured he would have been aware of my car and its electric supercharger days. From one evo OG to another I was really surprised to see him revisit this idea as it didn't go down to well back in the day.

If you want faster spool all of these does a better job:
Anti-lag
Timing changes
Timing changes with respect to your (no lift shift) settings
Cams
Larger throttle body
Larger intake manifold
More displacement
-the previous 4 hint at better air flow in the system
-more air in = more exhaust gas to spin turbine = earlier spooling
-earlier denser air introduced in the system is the idea the E-turbo is based on in its relation to pre-spooling.

Though I must add that electric motor and battery technology has improved in the past 14 years. But in relation to a car like the evo or brz you are still limited by battery/recharging options. At the moment the best application for an E-turbo would be in a hybrid car. The E-turbo would benefit from the larger electrical potential those cars due to their batteries and recharge rates. Imagine if one to electric hub components which spins the wheels on a koenigsegg regara or mclaren p1 was focused into a spinning turbine application... it would prove to be a fun little hybrid hack to play with. (think civic hybrid with an electric powered gt35 intake wheel shoved into the intake system. You could literally flip a switch to go from turbo lag save my drivetrain characteristics to supercharger 100% on all the time beast mode characteristics.

thank you for the datapoint but tech has progressed quite a bit since, we have a ton of people running the Phantom on this board and production has never been able to get even close to demand