Twins future question

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by Braces

Porsche undeniably engineered some great NA boxer engines. They obviously know a few things about building engines. Now ... they are all mostly turbos.

Ferrari and McLaren. Small turbocharged V8 in their light weight sports cars.

Ford GT: Turbocharged V6.

Corvette ZO6: Supercharged V8.

Forced injection is moving forward.

Porsche assisted Subaru in developing their variable valve timing. Strong similarities in the design and resulting torque curves.

European engine designers are forced to supercharge and turbos are the most efficient and cost effective Superchargers. CO2 emissions (a proxy for fuel consumption) is the reason.

So Aston Martin's new V12 is supercharged. BMW builds nothing but now including thrust latest V12. Mercedes, Jaguar, VWAG and all the others are going tired induction. They have to to sell into the EU.

America is the hold out for now. Japan also still builds a few naturally aspirated engines.

[Yardjass]

Originally Posted by Braces

Porsche undeniably engineered some great NA boxer engines. They obviously know a few things about building engines. Now ... they are all mostly turbos.

Ferrari and McLaren. Small turbocharged V8 in their light weight sports cars.

Ford GT: Turbocharged V6.

Corvette ZO6: Supercharged V8.

Forced injection is moving forward.

Ford GT: meh. Could have done the same thing with a v8. It's just another way for them to promote the sales gimmick that is ecoboost. Ask most ecoboost truck owners what they'd buy if they could do it again.

The Z06 is currently playing second fiddle to the grand sport that is slotted under it, at least in the minds of most corvette enthusiasts. When your track car for the streets goes into limp mode and becomes useless on a track due to heat soak issues, it doesn't matter how capable it is when it is working.

Forced induction has its place but all in all, I find it extremely over used and overrated.

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C1xziudzYbY"]Shadow Dodging - Toyota FT-86 Open concept (Feature Film) - YouTube[/ame]

Would trade in a heart beat... come on topless mark 2!

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

It's just another way for them to promote the sales gimmick that is ecoboost. Ask most ecoboost truck owners what they'd buy if they could do it again.

I've actually heard the ecoboost trucks are pretty solid, as long as you treat them right. Is this not true?

[Braces]

Originally Posted by Yardjass

Ford GT: meh. Could have done the same thing with a v8. It's just another way for them to promote the sales gimmick that is ecoboost. Ask most ecoboost truck owners what they'd buy if they could do it again.

The Z06 is currently playing second fiddle to the grand sport that is slotted under it, at least in the minds of most corvette enthusiasts. When your track car for the streets goes into limp mode and becomes useless on a track due to heat soak issues, it doesn't matter how capable it is when it is working.

Forced induction has its place but all in all, I find it extremely over used and overrated.

Over-used and overrated with domestic cars. Maybe yes. Overrated in sports cars. No. Best way to increase HP, Torque and keep the car light weight. Forced Induction. The tech is amazing. Hybrid/Turbos. Electric assist to eliminate lag. Porsche's variable turbine geometry. This stuff is just amazing. Forced Induction/Hybrid power/Electric is the future. Increasing C.I. is old school.

So back to topic. 2nd gen 86. If it was turbocharged .... it would be less than 2L. Slightly more HP and definitely more torque. Putting a larger engine in it makes no sense. Larger engines = more weight/worse MPH. The world is moving in a different direction.

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Braces

Larger engines = more weight

Increasing an engine's displacement does not increase its weight. Increasing the bore by 5% and the stroke of the motor 10% brings the displacement up by 21%. That's easily doable on the stock block and the motor would weigh about the same. All you need is a new crank, sleeves, and pistons.

This motor could do with some more stroke, get some more torque in there.



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[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Increasing an engine's displacement does not increase its weight. Increasing the bore by 5% and the stroke of the motor 10% brings the displacement up by 21%. That's easily doable on the stock block and the motor would weigh about the same. All you need is a new crank, sleeves, and pistons.

This motor could do with some more stroke, get some more torque in there.



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Easily doable? Then why are we not seeing it done all the time? I do not recall seeing a single about it being done. Not sure it is all that easy. Not like the old big blocks we used to do it to on a regular basis.

[JD001]

The future is bright, it's Orange..

[imnotsureaboutbrz]

Originally Posted by JD001

The future is bright, it's Orange..

and it's the price of a Series Yellow without the good bits...

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Yoshoobaroo

Increasing an engine's displacement does not increase its weight. Increasing the bore by 5% and the stroke of the motor 10% brings the displacement up by 21%. That's easily doable on the stock block and the motor would weigh about the same. All you need is a new crank, sleeves, and pistons.

This motor could do with some more stroke, get some more torque in there.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Easily doable? Then why are we not seeing it done all the time? I do not recall seeing a single about it being done. Not sure it is all that easy. Not like the old big blocks we used to do it to on a regular basis.

Because one can gain power much easier with a S/C and if the engine blows then we buy another car. We live in times where everything is replaceable and have fast results. Nevertheless, I am aware of a few motors with an increased displacement (2300 cc , 13.2:1 compression). They are saying that they have more torque especially in the middle range.

[strat61caster]

Stroker crank has been done, looks like it's not a huge change to the engine's life. I wouldn't want to be the guy pioneering an overbore on this block though. Big NA gains will be headwork from what I can see, but that's pricey and forced induction will be more bang for your buck.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Because one can gain power much easier with a S/C and if the engine blows then we buy another car. We live in times where everything is replaceable and have fast results. Nevertheless, I am aware of a few motors with an increased displacement (2300 cc , 13.2:1 compression). They are saying that they have more torque especially in the middle range.

I fully understand the concept and as stated we used to do it on a regular basis on our big block (and small for that matter) V8s. I disputed the "Easily doable" statement when it comes to these blocks. There just is not enough space to start boring them out. Hell they can blow apart with a bit of FI as it is without thing things down even more. I may have missed reading about them on here if they exist.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Stroker crank has been done, looks like it's not a huge change to the engine's life. I wouldn't want to be the guy pioneering an overbore on this block though. Big NA gains will be headwork from what I can see, but that's pricey and forced induction will be more bang for your buck.

Exactly!

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Easily doable? Then why are we not seeing it done all the time? I do not recall seeing a single about it being done. Not sure it is all that easy. Not like the old big blocks we used to do it to on a regular basis.

It's still expensive, the heads would need to be redesigned and the block's oil and coolant passages would have to be revised.

What I should have said is that it's easily doable within the current engine's size (and weight), but it IS a significant redesign and that it's not economical. Much cheaper to add a turbo system.

I guess my point is that big engines don't need to be heavy. Look at the LS3: 6 liters, 430 hp and lighter than the FA20.
BMW's N52 is a 3 liter, makes up to 275 hp and weighs 40lbs less than the FA20.
The EJ25 weighs about the same as an FA20 despite being larger in displacement and having a turbo system.


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