The Goal vs Porche 718 S turbo Boxer

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by r_rated

You CAN get a Cayman/Boxster for BRZ money - just not a new one. Even easier if you don't get an S. Hell - a NICE 2003 Boxster S (manual) just sold locally for 13K. Had 90K miles which is nothing for a Porsche and had some well thought mods. Well sorted 996's can now be had from 15-20K now.

Porsche can go MANY miles and the cost to own over 1Mil miles is much less than a Subaru @ 1Mil miles... Completely different level of engineering. You pay for this if you shop new...

I agree, I have owned 4 used P-cars. And I will have more. Once I get moved and get a proper shop and lift, then I can service the P-cars much more properly. And, I wont have a car that I can't do 90% of the work on.

But I agree with your assessment. Still right now I am having fun rocking the BRZ for fun. The S2000 is the track rat at the moment, I learn more driving my S2k than any other car I have tracked including my former P-cars and the 86.

Edit: MY last 09 Cayman S with 65k and no accidents I got for $27k, this was a year ago when many other similar cars were mid to high 30s. So yes, even clean cars can be got for BRZ money.

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The old Caymans where the under-powered cars of Porsche. Many where praising their handling, but not their power. A 718 is an entirely different car and it looks that Porsche "listen" their customers. If we are comparing our cars with Caymans, then it is important to know the model years. Earlier Cayman models where still faster, but not that faster!

True. But even with the older slower models, there are some inherent qualities that you just can not get with the BRZ. I love both, but I don't see the reason to try and make one like the other, when you could just go get the other car.

Or own both ....its a lotta fun.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

True. But even with the older slower models, there are some inherent qualities that you just can not get with the BRZ. I love both, but I don't see the reason to try and make one like the other, when you could just go get the other car.

Or own both ....its a lotta fun.

Its a different level. Any Porsche can go to the track out of the box. One day at the track with a BRZ is going to fry the brake pads, boil the fluid and warp the rotors - not to mention have other cooling issues. To address just the reliability would make the value proposition immediate. For the street - likely none of these are a bog deal.

The BRZ fun is perhaps more obtainable fun on the street - even heavy mountain driving is no where near the abuse of track time so its fine for that. Also - some people (me) simply enjoy modding. Modifications are also way cheaper and more abundant for the BRZ.

People that compare power specs on older caymans don't get it. Every porsche has always punched way above their weight in terms of spec sheets. For example - 911s are now getting the same lap times as a Ferrari 458 and faster than lambo huracans...

[brzaapi]

Originally Posted by r_rated

Also - some people (me) simply enjoy modding. Modifications are also way cheaper and more abundant for the BRZ.

This, the BRZ/FRS is like a fun hot wheel toy where I just look for shit to play with. I just finished my install of the EBSC. I am about to through some springs on the PP struts. This BRZ is a street toy for me and an AX toy for my wife when she comes out to play.

The S2000 is my go to rat for now. But I agree with all things said about the Porsches. But my fun factor with the BRZ is the fact it is a modders dream. And almost all mods are quite simple.

All this Porsche talk has got me looking at some used ones again. I got quit reading these VS threads.

[r_rated]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

This, the BRZ/FRS is like a fun hot wheel toy where I just look for shit to play with. I just finished my install of the EBSC. I am about to through some springs on the PP struts. This BRZ is a street toy for me and an AX toy for my wife when she comes out to play.

The S2000 is my go to rat for now. But I agree with all things said about the Porsches. But my fun factor with the BRZ is the fact it is a modders dream. And almost all mods are quite simple.

All this Porsche talk has got me looking at some used ones again. I got quit reading these VS threads.

https://rennlist.com/forums/991/8636...1-1-a-693.html

[r_rated]

Helluva deal - 400hp/325tq... ad has a misprint.

http://www.dcmotorz.com/vehicle-deta...66920accc6490/

[r_rated]

8K Manual - Track ready!
https://www.cargurus.com/Cars/l-Used...ting=172553428

[brzaapi]

This isn't helping, your just like my crack dealer.

I mean my old crack dealer.

[slyphen]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Real suggestion:

Take your friend autocrossing and bet dinner on the outcome (you're in San Diego, best site in SoCal is Qualcomm stadium), and don't hold a grudge no matter who wins.

And when you want to beat him buy a set of these

lol there is a reason the 718 S is in S Street while the 86 is in D Street. it'll be down to the driver and his friend will have an easier time.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by slyphen

lol there is a reason the 718 S is in S Street while the 86 is in D Street. it'll be down to the driver and his friend will have an easier time.

Yup, that's the point. I've seen Caymans turn slower times than ES miatas.

[r_rated]

If you have Porsche envy then just get one. They are available at BRZ prices. Don't try to build something you'll always envy - Even if you put 100K in mods in a BRZ it's still not a Porsche no matter how much faster it may be.

[Bfranklyn86]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Shame, Britain used to be the country of doing more with less, Colin Chapman and Bruce Mclaren are probably spinning in their graves. I love the fact that I've gotten in a Mini cooper and put down times quicker than Golf R and FoRS and Porsches and M3's.

I wanted to demonstrate to these people the 'more for
Less' concept on the track, but the offer was not accepted.

They are not car people. None of them will be seen in a lotus, ever. And rest assured if they ever do come on track with me, I'll secretly drop another £3k on track mods for my 86 to make sure I win (partially defeating my own argument....).

[bfrank1972]

Originally Posted by r_rated

If you have Porsche envy then just get one. They are available at BRZ prices. Don't try to build something you'll always envy - Even if you put 100K in mods in a BRZ it's still not a Porsche no matter how much faster it may be.

Meh, not sure what kind of crusade you're on here. I've owned a few Porsches myself (both air cooled & water cooled both), and not sure what planet you live on but there's just no way any used Porsche will be cheaper to own than a newer BRZ. Why do you think modern Boxsters have depreciated so much? Personally I enjoyed them all, I enjoy my FR-S, and I enjoy the process of modding my FR-S. They all have their good points and bad points - overall Porsche engineering is better just like the S2000 is better. The cars are built with a different target in mind - that said, Porsche's fine engineering has had many screw ups. So far, the cheapo FR-S has been treating me pretty good, and I also don't get any of the Porsche-porcupine jokes

[Gforce]

Originally Posted by brzaapi

Something else to add, if you manage to make your 86 as fast as a 718 around the track...and you did it for the same amount of money that a 718 would cost you (used or new). You still wouldn't have the overall longevity that Porsche tries to build into their cars. They are designed to handle weekend warrior track abuse and be built up if need be. And give you all that robustness and performance while also being a pleasant DD.

So besides engine placement balance, robustness....the BRZ would not be a pleasant car to drive once you created your 718 destroyer. And you would have likely spent much more money. A BRZ will never be a Cayman. But a Cayman will never be a BRZ either. Some who have owned both I think know what I mean by that statement. I loved all my P-cars I have had. The good thing is I love the fun and experience I have with my BRZ on the road and track. It does cost me much less to operate and I still have just as much fun tracking it. Do I sometimes long for a P-car when I am at the track, sure.....I also lust to turn laps in a vette, in Maclaren, in a GT350, etc. Cause I want to experience all of them.

BUT, funny enough when I was tracking my Caymans, I also lusted to have me BRZ back. So I decided to stay in the little Subie till it wasn't fun anymore, hasn't happened yet.

I wouldn't built a BRZ to be Porsche. And the reverse makes no sense. If you want the 718 try and find a way to get there. If you want the BRZ, take it and make it the best BRZ that fits you. But don't aim to make it a Porsche. Its a pipedream.

Since I hold the opinion that a 2016 or older Porsche Cayman is the best sportscar ever made regardless of price I would not suggest the BRZ is or could be made to be better.

Up here the local Porsche dealer is a snot nose. VWAG Canada are a bunch of crooks (I have an Audi story I could tell but my settlement agreement with VWAG Canada precludes me detailing it) so, that was a big factor in my decision to forgo the Cayman I nearly put a deposit on and buy the BRZ for cash, no deposit.

I have modified my BRZ to be the comfortable and capable road car it begged to be out if the box. It rides far better than any Cayman. Subaru now builds exactly my car, well except for MCA traction brackets and I chose a 20 mm front bar instead of stiffer frint springs.

With a Supercharger it can easily keep up with any base Cayman. Only the S is quicker. Handling is every bit as good as the Cayman. Best of all, it is genuine sleeper attracting no attention whatsoever. A genuine Walter Mitty car. I get tickets every couple of years in my other rides but never in my non descript BRZ economy car.