Twins future question

[PetrolioBenzina]

Those of you who want "racecar" should be mad that Scion went away. Once they decided to put the "T" on it, some of the crudeness (AKA fun) had to go. Now that it is wearing the "T", yer' nuts to think it's going to devolve instead of bloat.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Those of you who want "racecar" should be mad that Scion went away. Once they decided to put the "T" on it, some of the crudeness (AKA fun) had to go. Now that it is wearing the "T", yer' nuts to think it's going to devolve instead of bloat.

Wrong. The "T" will have nothing to do with it. The car was already the "T" everywhere else in the world and they had the option of simple or fancy. Many of the "T's" cars started out as plain and simple and evolved into beasts. Same as "N", "H", and all the other letters.

[darthpnoy1984]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Those of you who want "racecar" should be mad that Scion went away. Once they decided to put the "T" on it, some of the crudeness (AKA fun) had to go. Now that it is wearing the "T", yer' nuts to think it's going to devolve instead of bloat.

I'm actually not mad I'm happy they went away putting a Scion badge was a huge abomination hands down.

As for the 86 I do think they need to broaden the appeal maybe have a lift back version as well or even a 4 door variant.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by darthpnoy1984

I'm actually not mad I'm happy they went away putting a Scion badge was a huge abomination hands down.

As for the 86 I do think they need to broaden the appeal maybe have a lift back version as well or even a 4 door variant.

They would have thought of this (they know what they are doing after all) but way too low of sales numbers forecast to make it worth it would be my bet. Take a niche car and make it even more niche is not broadening the market really. If it was a massive seller to start with that may work but not when it is already a limited production vehicle. They already make cars that fill those voids so why add the bastardization of a low volume model to the line up?

[HKz]

Originally Posted by PetrolioBenzina

Those of you who want "racecar" should be mad that Scion went away. Once they decided to put the "T" on it, some of the crudeness (AKA fun) had to go. Now that it is wearing the "T", yer' nuts to think it's going to devolve instead of bloat.

lol? it wasn't designed to be a scion, all scions were designed as global toyotas models and since the us is so annoyingly brand conscious and since scion was dying, toyota re-branded it as a last ditch effort...all the original suspension tuning on the frs was the same as the global 86

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They would have thought of this (they know what they are doing after all) but way too low of sales numbers forecast to make it worth it would be my bet. Take a niche car and make it even more niche is not broadening the market really. If it was a massive seller to start with that may work but not when it is already a limited production vehicle. They already make cars that fill those voids so why add the bastardization of a low volume model to the line up?

indeed, kinda hard to make a business case to the shareholders when they are already trying to pour money into the "3 sports car" lineup, possible 2nd gen 86, etc...people like to rag on toyota for their lack of sports cars during the 2000s but they forget the lfa development was pretty much from the end of the mk4 supra to the gt86, they can't spend their money doing everything especially as an eco brand so they have to pick and choose their battles..can you imagine the conversation, hey folks i know we are pouring billions of yen to make a limited edition super car but can we have more development money to also make convertible and shooting brake variants of the 86??

[mav1178]

at the end of the day, enthusiasts think they can run a business better than Toyota or whomever their car is badged or made by.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by HKz

lol? it wasn't designed to be a scion, all scions were designed as global toyotas models and since the us is so annoyingly brand conscious and since scion was dying, toyota re-branded it as a last ditch effort...all the original suspension tuning on the frs was the same as the global 86



indeed, kinda hard to make a business case to the shareholders when they are already trying to pour money into the "3 sports car" lineup, possible 2nd gen 86, etc...people like to rag on toyota for their lack of sports cars during the 2000s but they forget the lfa development was pretty much from the end of the mk4 supra to the gt86, they can't spend their money doing everything especially as an eco brand so they have to pick and choose their battles..can you imagine the conversation, hey folks i know we are pouring billions of yen to make a limited edition super car but can we have more development money to also make convertible and shooting brake variants of the 86??

Most of the people screaming for a "better more powerful" 86 tend to forget that that those are already being made. What they want are those cars at a Yaris price point and get bent out of shape when they can't have it.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

at the end of the day, enthusiasts think they can run a business better than Toyota or whomever their car is badged or made by.

They think that logic comes into play in the automotive business. Logic rarely does.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"The updates add just 17.6 pounds to the new model, Tada says. Note the period at the end of this. The article reads as if they are referring to the convertible. They are not.

Sorry, but you're inferring that on your own. They hadn't even mentioned a convertible before that; they were only talking about the updated 2017 86.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"Toyota and Subaru engineered this chassis to accommodate a convertible version without the need for heavy bracing, but that won’t happen with this generation model." This is not even attributed to being a quote but is simply the writer's statement. There are about 3 whole lines of "quotes" throughout the whole thing.

This is how your write a paragraph when your interviewee gives you information in a way that can't be quoted with clarity. I would bet the language barrier had something to do with this. Could it have been written clearer? Yes. Is there a chance it's there to deceive? Yes. But is there any reason other than baseless suspicion to believe that? No.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Tada would like a convertible from the get-go for a second-generation model, but he hinted that Toyota has yet to sign off on an 86 Mark II. Once again no quote just a writer saying he "would like" one.

See above. Nothing wrong with this.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The Mark II is bolded because even if Tada did say it (which I doubt since they use the word "hint") he isn't saying the convertible isn't confirmed but the whole damned next gen.

The author is relaying that Tada wants a convertible immediately for the Second Gen (or Mark II), but Toyota hasn't signed off on the second gen, so a convertible isn't in the equation until then. Again, unclear writing? Yes. Clickbait? No. And again, you notice the author uses the verb "hint." Likely because Tada is sworn to secrecy and because he doesn't speak English well (see earlier paragraph that refers to "broken English.")

This kind of stuff happens when a reporter asks something like, "will there be a convertible in the second generation of FT86?" and the subject (Tada, who can't really speak English or give away secrets), just winks.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You have fallen for the click bait trap that has swallowed so many before you.

I understand your suspicion in this crazy internet world we live in, but you're working with an odd (read: incorrect) definition of clickbait. Clickbait is a sensational headline designed to lure consumers into a questionable site for the sake of revenue generation. The headline on this piece is not sensational (it's rather dull), and the site is respectable. In fact, I'd say this is one of the better write-ups of the new 86 I've read - and I've read at least 20 this year.

[bkharmony]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Most of the people screaming for a "better more powerful" 86 tend to forget that that those are already being made. What they want are those cars at a Yaris price point and get bent out of shape when they can't have it.

Yep. I was just drooling over the "big brother" Lexus 500 earlier this week. But I've got LFA taste on a 86 budget.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Sorry, but you're inferring that on your own. They hadn't even mentioned a convertible before that; they were only talking about the updated 2017 86.




This is how your write a paragraph when your interviewee gives you information in a way that can't be quoted with clarity. I would bet the language barrier had something to do with this. Could it have been written clearer? Yes. Is there a chance it's there to deceive? Yes. But is there any reason other than baseless suspicion to believe that? No.





See above. Nothing wrong with this.



The author is relaying that Tada wants a convertible immediately for the Second Gen (or Mark II), but Toyota hasn't signed off on the second gen, so a convertible isn't in the equation until then. Again, unclear writing? Yes. Clickbait? No. And again, you notice the author uses the verb "hint." Likely because Tada is sworn to secrecy and because he doesn't speak English well (see earlier paragraph that refers to "broken English.")

This kind of stuff happens when a reporter asks something like, "will there be a convertible in the second generation of FT86?" and the subject (Tada, who can't really speak English or give away secrets), just winks.



I understand your suspicion in this crazy internet world we live in, but you're working with an odd (read: incorrect) definition of clickbait. Clickbait is a sensational headline designed to lure consumers into a questionable site for the sake of revenue generation. The headline on this piece is not sensational (it's rather dull), and the site is respectable. In fact, I'd say this is one of the better write-ups of the new 86 I've read - and I've read at least 20 this year.

I disagree on all points. The info is vaguely attributed to the person they are allegedly quoting and is totally unconformable at best and possibly total fiction at worst. If Tada did indeed say or even "hint" that the Mark II has not been signed off then he would be hauled up in front of his superiors and flogged. Even he is not at liberty to tell the "press" such things I am sure.


The clickbait part comes in that they even mentioned the convertible at all since it has been very clearly taken off the table 2 years ago. Although I guess they had to do something to spice up a first drive article written in March of 2017 when the car has already been on the lots for six months.


We will see if there is a convertible when/if the next gen comes out and one of us will be vindicated and the other owe an apology.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bkharmony

Yep. I was just drooling over the "big brother" Lexus 500 earlier this week. But I've got LFA taste on a 86 budget.

I did actually consider the LCF when shopping but it was way too much money for me to use up and throw away in my long commutes. The LFA has never really interested me in any form as a daily driver. Now if I was just looking for a weekend toy it would be on the shortlist.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

They think that logic comes into play in the automotive business. Logic rarely does.

Business logic does. Normal human reasoning/emotional logic, not so much.

It's like 20 years ago when Nissan discontinued the 240SX in North America. Everyone wanted the S15 Silvia... yet no one saw what was going on in the compact sports coupe market (declining sales of the Eclipse GS-T, Acura Integra/RSX struggling, etc).

Sure, other cars like S2000 or WRX came along, but those cars were niche market cars or targeted to non-enthusiasts. At the end of the day, car makers will sell anything that they can make a profit on, and you have to find 25-30k buyers a year for them to justify a mass produced sports-anything.

-alex

[PetrolioBenzina]

None of you clowns seem to grasp the fact that I know the car is/was a Toyota. However, the badge a car wears has everything to do with how the car is perceived, from owner to corporate. Witness some posters in this thread.

Toyota will be unable to resist making the car better (more mainstream) right into the ground because it is now branded as a Toyota. Some of you are seriously dense.