When am I lugging?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I leave my shift indicator on and going easy down the 40 mph road I work on, it tells me to go into sixth around 38 or so and that's about 1700rpm.

Keeping it at 3k or above at all times would require a lot of clutch modulation, I'd imagine. Like a motorcycle. Sounds like a good way to burn up a clutch early.

You have to remember your throttle input is a factor. If you're only using enough throttle to remain at speed, you may as well use the most efficient gear. Just shift down before accelerating.

I've never burned up a clutch in 20 years of driving and 5 different DD stick shifts.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I guess if you don't mind looking obnoxious, it doesn't.

Most of the time, if you're in too low a gear and running high rpm, the vehicle will buck some.

That's why clutch modulation is a necessity on a motorcycle. And why they have a wet clutch.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I don't want to get into a fight about how best to negotiate low speeds in these cars.

I just want to point out that you guys running 55mph in your cars at 3k rpm or whatever don't need to do that and are basically just being wasteful.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I can drive a tractor too! High five.

And if you're so experienced (which I believe you are), you should already know that too high an rpm makes low speed stuff tricky which requires clutch modulation. If you go too fast in first, you get a herky-jerky throttle. You should know that.

To illustrate by exaggeration, imagine trying to navigate a parking lot with the throttle stuck at 7 grand. You think that's going to be a smooth experience without slipping the clutch some?

And as for the shift indicator, well, I trust the engineers at Subaru (a little) but, again, to me, it all comes down to listening to the engine. Is my motor trying to hop forward and die at 1700 rpm? No. Is it even struggling or knocking? No. Sounds to me like it's doing just fine. Gear down to romp and you'll be fine.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

So I paid attention to my tach while driving home yesterday and today.

Tcoat, 3k in first is about 16mph. In a parking lot situation, that's entirely too fast. So you're either slipping the clutch like crazy or you're not practicing what you preach.

Parking lot speeds, about 5-8mph, is about 1500-1700rpms. In first. According to you that's just torturing the engine.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

55mph in sixth is about 2400rpm. To get it up to 3k, I had to shift down to fifth.

Are you really gonna stand by the above statement?

You really cruise highways in fifth and claim that's helping you... somehow?

You are all over the place with your argument.
The statements have been to keep the revs up above 2,000 WHEN POSSIBLE not rev the living crap out of it.
Yes, you will drop below 2K when going slow enough in a parking lot. Nobody said to drive full out.
Yes, you can switch to 6th when cruising above 55 but you are only changing things about 500rpm which is peanuts.
You do not need to cruise at 38 in 6th.
You do not need to push the stall limits to drive a parking lot.
In many cases driving in too high a gear for the speed means you will not have any acceleration available if you need it to get out of a bad situation. That downshift time may be all it takes to preventing you from getting away.


I am not saying drive around of the rev limiter just keep at at or at least very close to 2,000. At or very close to 3,000 is a very good number for cruising for mileage.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You are all over the place with your argument.
The statements have been to keep the revs up above 2,000 WHEN POSSIBLE not rev the living crap out of it.
Yes, you will drop below 2K when going slow enough in a parking lot. Nobody said to drive full out.
Yes, you can switch to 6th when cruising above 55 but you are only changing things about 500rpm which is peanuts.
You do not need to cruise at 38 in 6th.
You do not need to push the stall limits to drive a parking lot.
In many cases driving in too high a gear for the speed means you will not have any acceleration available if you need it to get out of a bad situation. That downshift time may be all it takes to preventing you from getting away.


I am not saying drive around of the rev limiter just keep at at or at least very close to 2,000. At or very close to 3,000 is a very good number for cruising for mileage.

Actually, you're the one backpedaling now. Yesterday, 3k at 55 was "about right" Now, it's 2000-3000. Peanuts.

And when I mentioned slow speeds, you argued about that too.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How does keeping the revs up require more clutch than keeping them low?

And when I answered you, you came back with a snarky ass remark.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

No. If you are in too high a gear and your revs are too low the car will buck. Higher revs in a lower gear should give you a nice smoother acceleration or cruise.
We are not talking about motorcycles here.

I brought up motorcycles to illustrate what I was talking about. Rather than try to understand what I was getting at, you got snotty.

And when I tried again to illustrate (by exaggeration) what I was talking about, you ignored my point once again and decided to argue instead of listen.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

To illustrate by exaggeration, imagine trying to navigate a parking lot with the throttle stuck at 7 grand. You think that's going to be a smooth experience without slipping the clutch some?

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nobody is saying to drive around a parking lot at 7K. They are saying to do it between 2 and 3K.

You could have at any point said, "Oh, well, yeah, parking lot speeds, sure." But no, you had to stick to your 3k rule and not give a inch on it.

Even 2k in first is 10+mph; and 3k is just ridiculous. The whole point I was trying to make was that running the car at even 1000-1500 is just fine as long as it's the right situation. But you gotta argue with every-fucking-body on this board.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You are probably lugging any time that you are dropping much below 1,000 regardless of what gear you are in. If the engine starts rattling and the car is sort of lurching then you need to bring the revs up. I personally try to keep my RPMs at a minimum of 2,000 all the time although you can go lower without lugging. The other benefit of keeping down a gear with slightly higher revs is that if you have to motor out of an issue you can get some speed up way faster.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

Shoot, I keep my rpms low all the time. I routinely beat every EPA estimate in the book that way.

As for lugging... well just listen to the engine. It'll let you know what it doesn't like. The car will start hopping forward and falling on its face.

You can run a low rpm just cruising, just remember to gear down before accelerating. High 30s seems to be the lower limit for sixth in mine.

I've noticed the BRZ clatteres like a diesel when I'm creeping through parking lots in second. I think that's just the direct injection kicking in though.

Really though, don't think about it too much. It'll let you know when you're doing it wrong, by hook or by crook. If the engine doesn't, the clutch will, lol. I think everyone remembers that smell from when they were young.

What's funny is that we said essentially the same things here.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

Actually, you're the one backpedaling now. Yesterday, 3k at 55 was "about right" Now, it's 2000-3000. Peanuts.

And when I mentioned slow speeds, you argued about that too.



And when I answered you, you came back with a snarky ass remark.



I brought up motorcycles to illustrate what I was talking about. Rather than try to understand what I was getting at, you got snotty.

And when I tried again to illustrate (by exaggeration) what I was talking about, you ignored my point once again and decided to argue instead of listen.





You could have at any point said, "Oh, well, yeah, parking lot speeds, sure." But no, you had to stick to your 3k rule and not give a inch on it.

Even 2k in first is 10+mph; and 3k is just ridiculous. The whole point I was trying to make was that running the car at even 1000-1500 is just fine as long as it's the right situation. But you gotta argue with every-fucking-body on this board.

You keep changing the criteria which changes mu=y responses. I stand by each as a response to what was written prior to it not after.




Oh and my question that started all this was not "snarky" I was truly asking how keeping revs up caused jerking.

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You keep changing the criteria which changes mu=y responses. I stand by each as a response to what was written prior to it not after.




Oh and my question that started all this was not "snarky" I was truly asking how keeping revs up caused jerking.

And I tried explaining it to you two times. 3k rpms -- even 2k rpms -- in a parking lot is way too fast even in first gear. To maintain a low enough speed at that high an rpm would require a lot of clutch slipping. If you AREN'T slipping the clutch then you're going too damn fast and it will require a lot of herky-jerky bullshit driving.

And there's no defending your 55 @ 3k statement. It's blatantly ignorant by the very fact that this car has a sixth gear. If you're cruising down the highway with the cruise control on, use your damn sixth gear. It has nothing to do with "saving $20 a year" on gas. That's just basic driving a car.

[humfrz]

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Want some lemonade while I'm up?

[ls1ac]

Tcoat
give up, mind is made up do not confuse with the facts.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

I don't want to get into a fight about how best to negotiate low speeds in these cars.

I just want to point out that you guys running 55mph in your cars at 3k rpm or whatever don't need to do that and are basically just being wasteful.

Originally Posted by Da Brz

And I tried explaining it to you two times. 3k rpms -- even 2k rpms -- in a parking lot is way too fast even in first gear. To maintain a low enough speed at that high an rpm would require a lot of clutch slipping. If you AREN'T slipping the clutch then you're going too damn fast and it will require a lot of herky-jerky bullshit driving.

And there's no defending your 55 @ 3k statement. It's blatantly ignorant by the very fact that this car has a sixth gear. If you're cruising down the highway with the cruise control on, use your damn sixth gear. It has nothing to do with "saving $20 a year" on gas. That's just basic driving a car.

Again a change in criteria of the statement. Your first statement implies that the revs should always be low and does not say anything about cruising down the highway with cruise on.


There is nothing wrong with cruising at 3,000. Nothing at all. I cruise at 3,200 in 6th to go 70. Should I have another gear to keep revs down?

[Da Brz]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Again a change in criteria of the statement. Your first statement implies that the revs should always be low and does not say anything about cruising down the highway with cruise on.


There is nothing wrong with cruising at 3,000. Nothing at all. I cruise at 3,200 in 6th to go 70. Should I have another gear to keep revs down?

No change. I said you don't have to run 3k at 55. No where in those words did I say "rpms should always be low." Just that running your car at 55 in fifth gear is wasteful. 55 at 3k is fifth gear.

And sure, it doesn't hurt to run 55 at 3k in fifth. But why in the hell would you.

AND furthermore, if this car had a seventh gear, then yes, you should use it when cruising at 70. But since it doesn't, 3200 is the best you're gonna do.

[Da Brz]

But hey, you do you. Run fourth down the highway for all I care. Keep her at FIVE grand and let her eat.

I'mma do me. Cool?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Da Brz

But hey, you do you. Run fourth down the highway for all I care. Keep her at FIVE grand and let her eat.

I'mma do me. Cool?

I have not once said to go way over. Five would be silly.

[Da Brz]

I appreciate your levity, sir.

[Ultramaroon]

I still occasionally catch myself looking for 7th.