MotorTrend's Head-2-Head MX-5 MiataRF vs. Toyota86

[venturaII]

So the somewhat slower, significantly more expensive, and less convenient vehicle is the winner? Nice to see Motor Trend hasn't changed.

[mazeroni]

The 86 is $10K cheaper.

On Willow, the BRZ + PP might have made some amount of difference, but I don't imagine the Sachs shocks, bremos, or 10mm wider tires would suddenly transform the car and make them think different about it on the street, which is obviously a sticking point.

Is .13 seconds worth $10K?

No.

Not at all.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by mazeroni

The 86 is $10K cheaper.

On Willow, the BRZ + PP might have made some amount of difference, but I don't imagine the Sachs shocks, bremos, or 10mm wider tires would suddenly transform the car and make them think different about it on the street, which is obviously a sticking point.

Is .13 seconds worth $10K?

No.

Not at all.

Actually I think the better Sachs shocks do make a difference on the street. Which car was faster around WS? The quote above had the 86 quicker.

[WorldRallyB]

Originally Posted by guybo

If a mag is doing anything other than comparing like-for-like, they are selling something, not reviewing anything. MotoTrend is automotive "journalism" at its worst. Pick up the print magazine and check out the ads- the people paying the bills. Then look at the "review" of that product a few pages later. It happens all the time, they cannot be unbiased or they'll bite the hand that feeds them.

The video did make it seem like they were really back and forth and that it was a difficult choice to claim a winner. However, i went back to the video just now to match my "As tested" prices with theirs and look what i found?



apparently the new brembos are a free upgrade?

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by WorldRallyB

I'm not going to regurgitate everything said, but i'll include some highlights.

[about the 86]
"Can you explain to me why the front of this car looks like a jack-o-lantern in December"? -Jason Cammisa

"This sounds like two garbage trucks arm wrestling in a dumpster" -Jonny Lieberman:
"Garbage trucks are too big, more like two drain disposals, one gargoyling on marbles the other on silverware" -Jason Cammisa

[about both cars]
"I loves these things, they're like fighter planes, not the heavy bombers" -Randy Pobst

"Picking a winner was tough, we preferred whatever car we got out of last.. until we drove them to work. On normal roads at normal speeds its the miata that turns the drudgery into comedy and puts the 86 in second place" -Jason Cammisa

Jonny and Jason comparison comments:
-86 Rides better than the miata
-86 Quieter than the miata
-maita more fun at 10/10
-miata lots of body roll (duh), lots of movement with lots of control
-86 More roomy cabin, likes the seat and steering wheel adjustment/telescoping
-86 "sit the way you want to sit"
-86 They're not a fan of the boxer exhaust and rumble, evident by my quote above
-86 drives every bit as good as the miata
Randy's comments:
-86 less body roll, likes the feeling of control that goes with it
-86 pulls better at higher rpm
-86 better sense of control
-miata behaves better on bumps, 86 gets more upset with "snap oversteer"
-miata felt planted over a bumpy section on the track
-miata you can change direction better

Streets of Willow hot lap times:

86: 1:30.26
RF: 1:30.39

Jonny tries to beat Randy's times in a Hellcat (yes you just read that) and clocks a 1:40.79

Miata RF WINS Head 2 Head

My thoughts on the video:
I really enjoyed it, very entertaining and for as much crap these guys give our cars in other videos they had a lot of nice things to say. The review did an excellent job capturing my enjoyment i have driving my brz. Based off this video, what should you do? Buy a BRZ PP!

Thanks for the summary. These two seem really closely matched from their comments. If the Miata RF was an actual coupe, it'd be a difficult decision for me deciding between the two. But since it's not, 86 (or the better looking BRZ) would be my choice.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by WorldRallyB

Streets of Willow hot lap times:

86: 1:30.26
RF: 1:30.39

Jonny tries to beat Randy's times in a Hellcat (yes you just read that) and clocks a 1:40.79

Miata RF WINS Head 2 Head

My thoughts on the video:
I really enjoyed it, very entertaining and for as much crap these guys give our cars in other videos they had a lot of nice things to say. The review did an excellent job capturing my enjoyment i have driving my brz. Based off this video, what should you do? Buy a BRZ PP!

I agree with a lot of what they said in this video, which isn't very common lol. I typically disagree with a lot of the nitpicky stuff they say, but this time, I was right there with them the entire time.

Originally Posted by jmark

Agreed. I suspect the more equal comparison with the BRZ PP would have made the difference.

Not really. The lap time may have been slightly better, but ultimately, they chose the mx5 over the 86 because of the difference in fun factor on a daily commute. On the track, they said they're pretty much even in every way, but the mx5 let them turn any mundane city drive into an exciting one, which I actually agree with.

Can't go wrong with either, but from personal experience, I've always found the 86/BRZ to be lacking a bit in stock form. A couple small changes fixes that. When I drive the mx5 around though, I love it. Maybe it's the roadster/top down aspect.

[funwheeldrive]

I'm surprised the 86 was slightly faster. I guess the RF's roof does slow it down a little.

Originally Posted by venturaII

So the somewhat slower, significantly more expensive, and less convenient vehicle is the winner? Nice to see Motor Trend hasn't changed.

These are 2 cars based on driver enjoyment. They thought the ND was more fun to drive, which is was a lot of reviewers have been saying.


If you want a cheap practical car, buy a new Civic Si. That will probably be faster than both of these cars for less money.

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Thanks for the summary. These two seem really closely matched from their comments. If the Miata RF was an actual coupe, it'd be a difficult decision for me deciding between the two. But since it's not, 86 (or the better looking BRZ) would be my choice.

I would still choose the normal mx5 lol. The mx5's greatest weapon is the light weight, and the extra 120lbs (and higher price tag) turn me off. 120lbs is a 5% increase in weight, and it's all at the highest point of the body.

Call me crazy, but I actually don't like the way the RF looks. It's better with the top down, in my opinion.

[funwheeldrive]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I would still choose the normal mx5 lol. The mx5's greatest weapon is the light weight, and the extra 120lbs (and higher price tag) turn me off. 120lbs is a 5% increase in weight, and it's all at the highest point of the body.

Call me crazy, but I actually don't like the way the RF looks. It's better with the top down, in my opinion.

I would also pick the Vert over the RF. The RF complicates the simplicity of the Miata that I love. I've owned convertibles before and don't enjoy using them as daily drivers. Even if I didn't need the rear seats in my FRS I would stick pick the 86 platform for its fixed top. I also don't like the idea of bolting in a roll bar to a brand new car.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by TylerLieberman

I would still choose the normal mx5 lol. The mx5's greatest weapon is the light weight, and the extra 120lbs (and higher price tag) turn me off. 120lbs is a 5% increase in weight, and it's all at the highest point of the body.

Call me crazy, but I actually don't like the way the RF looks. It's better with the top down, in my opinion.

Yeah if I didn't mind the convertible aspect, I might go with the soft-top ND. The weight is definitely impressive for a modern car.

Agree on the looks of the RF btw. I was surprised when I saw the picture above and actually preferred the shape of the 86. The RF is not bad, just looks slightly bulbous.

[Lynxis]

I think each car offers something that the other does not and I wouldn't blame anyone for reaching whatever conclusion they did.

I don't think the top down, back road driving experience of the MX-5 can be replaced in any measure by the 86. If you are someone who really likes top-down driving, already has a second vehicle and wants a toy, the MX-5 is an obvious choice.

Now on the other hand, if you need any measure of practicality because you can only have one vehicle either due to space or cost restrictions, the 86 wins automatically.

[jmark]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I would also pick the Vert over the RF. The RF complicates the simplicity of the Miata that I love. I've owned convertibles before and don't enjoy using them as daily drivers. Even if I didn't need the rear seats in my FRS I would stick pick the 86 platform for its fixed top. I also don't like the idea of bolting in a roll bar to a brand new car.

Agreed

[TylerLieberman]

Originally Posted by Lynxis

Now on the other hand, if you need any measure of practicality because you can only have one vehicle either due to space or cost restrictions, the 86 wins automatically.

Lol there is some truth there. I really just wish they could have given the mx5 a real glovebox. I get the whole "gram strategy" thing, but I'd be fine with the vehicle weighing an extra 5lbs to have a glovebox.

As far as the back seats go, that honestly doesn't bother me, considering the 86 rear seats are useless. I had my FRS for 2.5 years and never once had anybody inthe back seat. The biggest strength, in terms of practicality, is the fact that the 86/BRZ was designed to fit 4 spare wheels, a jack, helmet, and tools with the rear seats folded down. The mx5 can't even come close to competing with that.

[venturaII]

Originally Posted by funwheeldrive

I'm surprised the 86 was slightly faster. I guess the RF's roof does slow it down a little.






These are 2 cars based on driver enjoyment. They thought the ND was more fun to drive, which is was a lot of reviewers have been saying.


If you want a cheap practical car, buy a new Civic Si. That will probably be faster than both of these cars for less money.

That's my point - the base suspension 86 is still (barely, but a win is a win) quicker than the Brembo packaged RF on their test course, and is a whole shitload cheaper in the process. In fact it seems to win the majority of comparisons when there's any measurable value, but despite all this, the RF wins on some imaginary component.


Not that I really care about the results of the actual article; only that it's a great example of the arbitrary nature of magazine comparisons when you allow 'feelings' to outweigh actual comparisons of measurable data.