trying to add some horsepower

[Lantana frs]

Go with header and open flash tablet. Easiest and cheapest way to go.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by vitti821

i have around 1200-1400

Just a header will not do much for you.
A header and tune will do more but still not give you blistering 0 to 60 speeds.
There is nothing that fits within your budget that is going to let you start drag racing and no inexpensive, bolt on magic HP device that will have much of an impact at all. You will see some modest gains from a good quality header of either type and a tune to actually take advantage of it. Just don't cheap out on Ebay crap in the hopes you will start taking on Mustangs. Shop for quality parts and check out the different tuning methods available and if outside of what you can pay WAIT and save until you can get them.
There is some very good info on what headers and tunes are available here:
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=96158

[stevesnj]

Regear between 4.33 and 4.56 gears and you should see better 0-60 times

[guybo]

Originally Posted by vitti821

ya i would totally do that but there is no e85 around me

The nearest E85 station to me is about 5 miles out of the way and there are none near where I work or on the way. Combine that with a new range on a fuel tank of maybe 250 miles and it'd become a big headache fast. I'm content with a small increase of power by gutting and tuning. My AFR looks good and fuel trims are good, my engine is 100% safe and I don't have to worry about extra heat from a header or destroying my tranny with too much power. I like safe when it comes to modding. If a E85 station pops up near my house... I'd be tempted. But that will be instant denial of the powertrain warranty pretty much immediately because there's no hiding a flex fuel kit or the smell of corn juice.

Everyone is different and wants different things.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by vitti821

what impact would running a less rich AFR have

Well, some people here say that in high RPMs the stock AFRs are super rich (have a lot of fuel) and by changing it there should not be any impact. However, the factory had a reason to choose these particular AFRs. In general, the engine can get very hot if you are running it in high RPMs for a long time. If the AFR is less rich (less fuel), then you'll have a performance gain but also much higher engine temperatures. Some people install an oil cooler which works, but this does not mean that the whole engine runs cooler.


Overall, it depends how hard you'll drive your car. My personal estimation is that you 'll have an engine that will last much shorter.

[guybo]

when it comes to AFR there's n old tuner's saying- lean is mean, or fat and happy. If you lean out your engine you can squeeze extra power out of it- to a point. But the extra fuel in a slightly rich mix actually cools off the combustion chamber. Too lean and you'll get pre-ignition, the engine will run too hot and then you'll kill your engine. Too rich and you can wash down your cylinders and screw up your rings and ruin the viscosity of your oil.

AFR is very important.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Well, some people here say that in high RPMs the stock AFRs are super rich (have a lot of fuel) and by changing it there should not be any impact. However, the factory had a reason to choose these particular AFRs. In general, the engine can get very hot if you are running it in high RPMs for a long time. If the AFR is less rich (less fuel), then you'll have a performance gain but also much higher engine temperatures. Some people install an oil cooler which works, but this does not mean that the whole engine runs cooler.


Overall, it depends how hard you'll drive your car. My personal estimation is that you 'll have an engine that will last much shorter.

Originally Posted by guybo

when it comes to AFR there's n old tuner's saying- lean is mean, or fat and happy. If you lean out your engine you can squeeze extra power out of it- to a point. But the extra fuel in a slightly rich mix actually cools off the combustion chamber. Too lean and you'll get pre-ignition, the engine will run too hot and then you'll kill your engine. Too rich and you can wash down your cylinders and screw up your rings and ruin the viscosity of your oil.

AFR is very important.

Stock tune on petrol 2012 to 2016 cars ,run down to a very rich 10.7 afr, main reason appears to be for longevity of the ceramic cat in header. Read somewhere they have to remain efficient for ten years or similar

Now most people who get tunes will either run a catlees header or a high flow metalic based catted header which are more heat tolerant.

Most tuners will target between 11.8 and 12.3 afr high rpm on these cars for max power, some tuners run a bit rich 11.8 with more ignition timing and some run at leaner end 12.3 but ittle less timing. Tuners will monitor exhaust gas temps and keep them to safe levels.

The stock 2017 cars seem to runn arround the 12.3 high rpm, maybe they have different cat material not sure.

When ive monitored my exhsust temps i see the highest temps during highway cruising where your targeting around 14.7 afr and lits of advance to get best economy. Wgen im flat out on track 5000-7000 full throttle im 60C below the tems i see cruising on highway and im at about 12.3 afr

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by steve99

Stock tune on petrol 2012 to 2016 cars ,run down to a very rich 10.7 afr, main reason appears to be for longevity of the ceramic cat in header. Read somewhere they have to remain efficient for ten years or similar

Why is this important for the cat? As you said, on crusing speeds the exhaust gas temperature is much higher and there is more wear on the cat.

Originally Posted by steve99

The stock 2017 cars seem to runn arround the 12.3 high rpm, maybe they have different cat material not sure.

I have not heard of any changes on the cat material. The only change I know is the replacement of specific engine internals with ones that have less friction. I assume that this change can lead on a better heat management on high rpms and thus the 12.3 afr.


Personally, I've seen stock engines ('12 - '16) after track events that were boiled. These engines were equiped with oil (air-)coolers. I heard that they had to be replaced after 1-2 years maximum. I don't know what would happen to them if they were not running a 10.7 afr.

[guybo]

Originally Posted by steve99

Stock tune on petrol 2012 to 2016 cars ,run down to a very rich 10.7 afr, main reason appears to be for longevity of the ceramic cat in header. Read somewhere they have to remain efficient for ten years or similar

Now most people who get tunes will either run a catlees header or a high flow metalic based catted header which are more heat tolerant.

Most tuners will target between 11.8 and 12.3 afr high rpm on these cars for max power, some tuners run a bit rich 11.8 with more ignition timing and some run at leaner end 12.3 but ittle less timing. Tuners will monitor exhaust gas temps and keep them to safe levels.

The stock 2017 cars seem to runn arround the 12.3 high rpm, maybe they have different cat material not sure.

When ive monitored my exhsust temps i see the highest temps during highway cruising where your targeting around 14.7 afr and lits of advance to get best economy. Wgen im flat out on track 5000-7000 full throttle im 60C below the tems i see cruising on highway and im at about 12.3 afr

I wondered why my oil temp got so high cruising on the highway. My tune also runs around 12.3 on the highway and there's a ton of advance too. Now I know why!

The OFT OTS tune runs pretty rich. I think it's because it is a safe tune since it's generic (as opposed to a custom tune). In a way I want to get a custom tune, but in another way, this tune is very safe and I don't really need (would I even notice?) a few extra HP. Even if there are power gains across the power band, I don't think I'd notice the small boost over the OTS tune. If you don't say STOP at some point, you will chase power forever.

[Detroiter]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Well, some people here say that in high RPMs the stock AFRs are super rich (have a lot of fuel) and by changing it there should not be any impact. However, the factory had a reason to choose these particular AFRs. In general, the engine can get very hot if you are running it in high RPMs for a long time. If the AFR is less rich (less fuel), then you'll have a performance gain but also much higher engine temperatures. Some people install an oil cooler which works, but this does not mean that the whole engine runs cooler.


Overall, it depends how hard you'll drive your car. My personal estimation is that you 'll have an engine that will last much shorter.

That's why the other main benefit of E85 is so important. Everyone talks about how it's higher octane but it also provides a cooling effect just like running a water/meth injection setup. The ethanol (or methanol in water/meth) burns at a lower temp than your average dinosaur. This does a lot for keeping egt's down and helping cars make more power safer. That's why E85 is so good. You can push it further than the same octane petrol.

Now if you are really that concerned about the engine temp with just a simple reflash then installing a water/meth kit on top of the E85 will do you one better as the water is for evaporating, which in the process uses the energy in the hot air of the intake manifold and engine which will cool the air prior to combustion. I'm not sure how effective it would be on a NA setup as it's more aimed toward forced induction but it could help to some degree if the injection amount is tuned right.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Why is this important for the cat? As you said, on crusing speeds the exhaust gas temperature is much higher and there is more wear on the cat.




I have not heard of any changes on the cat material. The only change I know is the replacement of specific engine internals with ones that have less friction. I assume that this change can lead on a better heat management on high rpms and thus the 12.3 afr.


Personally, I've seen stock engines ('12 - '16) after track events that were boiled. These engines were equiped with oil (air-)coolers. I heard that they had to be replaced after 1-2 years maximum. I don't know what would happen to them if they were not running a 10.7 afr.

I suspect to high egt would accelerate the ageing of the cat matetial resulting in it being less efficient.

Others also sugfest the original tune was rushed and they jyst went rich for safety i assume.

We have dozzens of guys tracking cars on petrol tunes targeting afr round 12, were not sering melted pistons burnt valves etc. Theirs the odd bearing failure but you get that stock occasionsly. The stock cat in header often completly disintergrates with prolonged track use, this has happened on stock cars stock tune as well.

These cars are not race track cars and anyone tracking racing or similar needs to expect accelerated wear and possiblly accelerated fsilure rates of many component's

I would not track my car stock in australia south africa or most parts of asia. High ambient temps coupled with low quality fuels and a stock tune that knocks like crazy on the street let alone the track. At a minium you need an oil cooler and a tune whick is more suited to the petrol available.

Ive yet to see or hear of anyone boiling the radiator on an 86 that didnt have some other problem naturally aspirated. But you will get sky high oil temps without a good oil cooler on track , air to oil radiator type. Most people tracking will also go for a 5w30 or similar oil as well as the oil cooler in those climates. And many use the more expensive pao ester based synthetic race oils,not the standard synthetics.

[vitti821]

Originally Posted by guybo

The nearest E85 station to me is about 5 miles out of the way and there are none near where I work or on the way. Combine that with a new range on a fuel tank of maybe 250 miles and it'd become a big headache fast. I'm content with a small increase of power by gutting and tuning. My AFR looks good and fuel trims are good, my engine is 100% safe and I don't have to worry about extra heat from a header or destroying my tranny with too much power. I like safe when it comes to modding. If a E85 station pops up near my house... I'd be tempted. But that will be instant denial of the powertrain warranty pretty much immediately because there's no hiding a flex fuel kit or the smell of corn juice.

Everyone is different and wants different things.

the warranty wouldnt be an issue for me cuz my car was a flood, no warranty to begin with. Definitely something i would consider if i had it in the area

[Lantana frs]

For street use power under the curve is what you're looking for. Getting rid of the asinine torque dip makes a huge difference in drivability. Not having to scream the piss out of it to be relevant in traffic is a nice thing.

[vitti821]

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

For street use power under the curve is what you're looking for. Getting rid of the asinine torque dip makes a huge difference in drivability. Not having to scream the piss out of it to be relevant in traffic is a nice thing.

so for that i want UEL right. Does it matter which UEL header I get because I see a ton of different ones, also does it matter which tune i use? I am fairly new to this