FRS vs Camaro Handling

[Lynxis]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

It's only 230 HP though

230 hp on slicks and aero lol.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

Here a nice video of how important is to choose good tires:

no. just no.

[perryair]

the 1le v6 looks like a great car and im sure that it is. but no amount of horsepower or torque or magnetic shocks will change the fact that the camaro is 21 inches longer, a few inches higher with a correspondingly higher center of gravity and 500 lb more in weight than a twin. just like no bolt on or FI will mask the sizeable power shortfall with the twins compared to a true pony car. it won't 'feel' the same as you scoot around a winding road or a track no matter what anyone's numbers say.

additionally, just the simple act of owning and maintaining that camaro is different. you run over a nail in your 275 35 20 runflat back tire and have to replace both, thats about $800 out of your pocket in addition to the about 5 grand in additional msrp over a twin that the camaro costs to get out the door. and then you would get the lovely pleasure of dealing with all of the fanbois who will look at you sideways cause you didnt spend the 7 grand more to get the v8.

i'm more than happy with my brz that i can roll my windows down and carve through winding country roads with a sh!t eating grin on my face at close to legal speeds that dont give johnny q law a reason to impound my car and arrest me for reckless driving.

that camaro, not so much. you want a grin, you're probably doing a hundred. and you know what? for those who have that and love it, more power to them.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

No it won't.. otherwise nobody would buy McLaren 570s or GT350R but simply get some "good tires" on their FRS/BRZs and get done with it It's not just the tires, it's the total package that makes that car handle that well.. 1.09g with street tires (better than most but still) is not something you can easily achieve without a sophisticated suspension and/or chassis tuning and some extensive R/D.

So your last comment is not true at all (from a personal experience) and also as a data proven fact, Camaro definitely has better handling and with the more power it makes the gap that big . One without the other, gap wouldn't be that dramatic. 5 second in a 1:30 lap is not something you can achieve with changing with a "good" set of tires It's so big, mind boggling

[Yardjass]

^^^ A 5 second improvement with only tires is not that outrageous considering how absolutely horrific our stock tires are, and the amount of room for improvement that they leave. Switch to a dedicated racing tire and significant gains are possible.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Gd.... quit making excuses. I would love to see a heavily modified frs' numbers posted and compared. This car was never meant to be put up against that competition. Enjoy the car for what it is, an entry level sporty car.

Originally Posted by fatoni

no. just no.

Originally Posted by glamcem

No it won't.. otherwise nobody would buy McLaren 570s or GT350R but simply get some "good tires" on their FRS/BRZs and get done with it It's not just the tires, it's the total package that makes that car handle that well.. 1.09g with street tires (better than most but still) is not something you can easily achieve without a sophisticated suspension and/or chassis tuning and some extensive R/D.

So your last comment is not true at all (from a personal experience) and also as a data proven fact, Camaro definitely has better handling and with the more power it makes the gap that big . One without the other, gap wouldn't be that dramatic. 5 second in a 1:30 lap is not something you can achieve with changing with a "good" set of tires It's so big, mind boggling

I said that the Cammaro will be faster. I am not questioning that the FRS will be faster only with better tires. It 'll just be way better. I am also saying that the weight is an important factor for handling that noone can ignore it. The aero / magnetic dampers are b*shit. If they could give even a slight advantage on a track, don't you think the racing teams wouldn't use them? Most of the racing teams in Europe use Bilsteins, Ohlins etc.

In general Subaru knows how to make very good handling cars, they are just back nowdays on the powerplant aspect because they are still using very aging engines. Even the best GT3 cars (Porsches, Mercedes etc.) don't dare to pass a Subaru on a corner. They wait for the straight parts to pass them. This is a fact and it has been mentioned by the professional Subaru race drivers.

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

Here a nice video of how important is to choose good tires:

I am agreed with you, they are faster because they caught up in straight line to shorten the distance, and not because of the better handling. I still very doubt a Camaro can do good in touge vs s2000, twins, miata.
Beside..1LE curb weight is 3860lbs....vs twins 2760....almost a ton heavier...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The aero / magnetic dampers are b*shit. If they could give even a slight advantage on a track, don't you think the racing teams wouldn't use them?

Just my opinion (and I'm assuming when you say race teams you are referring to organized racing) but I'm not sure you can point to that to jump to a conclusion. Racing is so highly regulated any longer that it is not possible for a team to integrate new tech for even a slight advantage.

It's not like the "old days" where a truly innovative team could dominate with slight improvements without resorting to "cheating". It's only cheating because the organizing body decides it is.

This is the primary reason I no longer watch racing of pretty much any type.

[Cole]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Just my opinion (and I'm assuming when you say race teams you are referring to organized racing) but I'm not sure you can point to that to jump to a conclusion. Racing is so highly regulated any longer that it is not possible for a team to integrate new tech for even a slight advantage.

It's not like the "old days" where a truly innovative team could dominate with slight improvements without resorting to "cheating". It's only cheating because the organizing body decides it is.

This is the primary reason I no longer watch racing of pretty much any type.

Aren't magnetic dampers (is that the proper term for them? Dampers?) not allowed in like, every top level racing organization?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

I am agreed with you, they are faster because they caught up in straight line to shorten the distance, and not because of the better handling. I still very doubt a Camaro can do good in touge vs s2000, twins, miata.
Beside..1LE curb weight is 3860lbs....vs twins 2760....almost a ton heavier...

It is not only about straight line speed when the car has been designed to be a complete package from the onset.


I'm sure even a base 6th gen SS would do quite well in the "touge" let alone a 1le car.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

It is not only about straight line speed when the car has been designed to be a complete package from the onset.


I'm sure even a base 6th gen SS would do quite well in the "touge" let alone a 1le car.

This^
Like usual, half the people here are fixated on the numbers as presented on paper (well glass I guess) and have never even driven most of the cars they keep referring to. I have actually driven a couple of brand new Camaros and although the weight looks bad on paper the whole package is designed to deal with it and the car does not feel heavy at all.
People need to start actually driving the cars they make broad sweeping statements about based purely on the numbers or what they "think".

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

This^
Like usual, half the people here are fixated on the numbers as presented on paper (well glass I guess) and have never even driven most of the cars they keep referring to. I have actually driven a couple of brand new Camaros and although the weight looks bad on paper the whole package is designed to deal with it and the car does not feel heavy at all.
People need to start actually driving the cars they make broad sweeping statements about based purely on the numbers or what they "think".

Thank you SIR. Sometimes a little perspective goes a long way.

[funwheeldrive]

I know this is an 86 forum, but I'm still surprised at how many excuses people are making to try and prove the 86 is superior. People are quoting weight numbers for the previous generations or saying that it's not fun to drive when they have probably never been behind the wheel of one.


Why is it so hard for some people on here to believe that Chevy has created an affordable driver's car that is also semi-practical? You might think they are in different classes, but the V6 1LE can be had for close to the same price so it's not crazy to try and compare the two cars.



Also

Originally Posted by Somerandom18

You can but I was referring to the GT only haha. It's a sports car not a muscle car. Should have a manual.

Is this real life?

[bcj]

Ok. Now, when do we get the 1LE hatchback wagon?