FRS vs Camaro Handling

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

I am really sorry... but this is not true. The 1le cars do great at autox and other tight driving conditions. As well as making decent drivers for everyday use.

It is obvious how little this forum in general understands some of the domestic offerings.

http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

This tests the 1le v6.... the ss 1le was dropped against more worthy competitors (viper, audi r8 etc..) and ranked very high.

That is only one source, but the 1le is a very controllable drivers' car.

I shared the same link since I didn't pay attention to this post my apologies

Originally Posted by ZDan

Actually these Camaros are not remotely lightweight. SS comes in at 3750+ lb. Historically (before they re-introduced the Camaro on a large sedan platform), V8 Camaros were generally in the 3400-3500 lb. weight range, so the current-gen is still heavy despite losing ~100 lb. vs. last-gen.

Car and driver reports 3467 lb. for a 2016 V6 Camaro, MT had one at 3461, so 3339 seems optimistic, maybe with no fuel?

For sure Japanese and German "sports" and "sporty" cars are almost all grossly overweight as well

SS 1LE is apparently a stellar-handling car, but I'd rather have the slower and less-stellar-handling-numbers FR-S/BRZ. Big heavy cars are just not as fun!

No that is the manufacturer's official curb weight, magazines typically get the cars loaded with options and they all add up. Weight reduction, especially rotational mass is easy since the V6 model comes with Run flat tires IIRC and very heavy OEM wheels. I personally said 8 -9 lbs per corner and I didn't even have the run flats and my car came with forged wheels!

Btw SS is at 3672lbs and some change and my 1LE is 3730 lbs

[FR-Sky]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Well it "IS" heavier but heavier doesn't necessarily mean it will handle worse than the lighter car otherwise Viper, GT3, C7 Z06 wouldn't break lap and road holding records I agree with you though, having a higher seating position because of the higher car compared to BRZ, Miata or S2000 (owned all of them at some point btw) gives you a perception of bulky car, ..but like you said it's just a "feeling" since data clearly shows it's not a fact Since the handling is something that can be measured I simply trust the data more than anything


Nope not the case, it will beat in tight track, autox, figure eight and any performance metrics and condition you can think of .. feel of the car will be different of course and no one can argue with that, it's just a personal preference. With that said, I also had some concerns before tracking my 1LE (especially in turn in and tight corners) they were all gone.. GM did an exceptional job on these cars while competing with Ford (GT350)

Numbers don't lie, it laps the Streets of Willow (1:30 min course) in a whopping 5 seconds faster than the 86!! 1.5 seconds different in Figure 8 is YUUUGE!! like I said above feeling is not a fact
take a look
http://www.motortrend.com/cars/fiat/...r-s-toyota-86/

from a value proportion V6 Camaro is a very hard to beat since it's the cheapest of the alpha platform cars. If I were in the market for a V6 and I would prefer the lighter option (which is still a very good option imo) I wouldn't get the 1LE V6 since it doesn't have all the goodies of the SS 1LE (such as PTM , MRC, e-diff, LT1..etc) so it might not be worh the price tag. It uses the SS suspension and recaros. I would simply get a new V6 for about $19k (I saw them going as low as below $20k) and put a good set of coilovers,wheel/tires and seat, strip the car for weight savings and have the best bang for the buck. It wouldn't be hard to keep it below 3300lbs with some weight reduction



Well I bought my 1LE as my track only car (and maybe a few miles on street driving every once in a while and I know many others in the same situation. The demand on these 1LEs is so big it took me a couple months to find one and at a decent price
speaking of weight, same can be said for BRZ or S2000 also, they still weigh a ton more than Lotus Elise and/or ND Miata. So there is no end to it. At the end of the way, it will "handle" better no matter how we look at it or feel.


endlinks were not torqued enough and it gave me some clunks after the first event, torqued it.

And one of the wiring harnesses is sitting close to A/C belt and causing high RPM hesitation. Zip tied that other than that so far so good (knock on wood)

Yea, but I said I doubted on TOUGE, I didn't say 1LE cant beat a 86 on track with turn or any other raceway.
Button willow still a high speed track? It is like comparing a corolla vs a Porsche since the Camaro is like 3x HP more than the 86. It is totally a different race class.
The most heaviest car I drove was a Audi s5, and E92 M3, they are fast, but not as fun as 86 in mountain.

[glamcem]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

Yea, but I said I doubted on TOUGE, I didn't say 1LE cant beat a 86 on track with turn or any other raceway.
Button willow still high speed track? It is like comparing a corolla vs a Porsche since the Camaro is like 3x HP more than the 86. It is totally a different race class.
The most heaviest car I drove was a Audi s5, and E92 M3, they are fast, but not as fun as 86 in mountain.

"Streets of Willow" not "buttonwillow" and I was referring to the V6 1LE. It's only 335hp (vs 205hp Toyota 86). My 1LE feels equally fun with the BRZ, S2000 and Miata since it's really predictable and with 305 tires very easy to rotate and catch a slide. The S5 and M3 and other sport luxury cars don't seem to be connected to the road they just feel mushy/bouncy. I think it's because the chassis and suspension tuning. New alpha platform chassis is very rigid and more importantly light. The new ATS-V is also a great performer (MT simply calls it the best handling sedan in the world) so things are changing these days.

[fatoni]

its amazing how there can be "car people" that dont know anything about the current gen camaro.

[Somerandom18]

The new American sport cars are pretty sweet now. Camaro 1LE and Challenger GT are interesting. Wish the Challenger came in manual though.

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[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Somerandom18

The new American sport cars are pretty sweet now. Camaro 1LE and Challenger GT are interesting. Wish the Challenger came in manual though.

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You can get challengers with manual.....

Not the gt, but that thing is only v6 and awd. So.... not really performance oriented.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by glamcem

Camaro SS 1LE tested @ $45,700 MSRP
23.3 seconds @ .86 g average Motor Trend figure eight course
1.09 g lateral acceleration
Braking 60mph to 0 in 94 ft

FRS tested @ $28,000 MSRP
26.2 seconds @.68 g average Motor Trend figure eight course
.90 g lateral acceleration
Braking 60mph to 0 in 120 ft.

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

Here a nice video of how important is to choose good tires:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZltSorr9W0"]Why You Should Never Buy Cheap Tires - YouTube[/ame]

[Somerandom18]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

You can get challengers with manual.....

Not the gt, but that thing is only v6 and awd. So.... not really performance oriented.

You can but I was referring to the GT only haha. It's a sports car not a muscle car. Should have a manual.

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[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Somerandom18

You can but I was referring to the GT only haha. It's a sports car not a muscle car. Should have a manual.

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The challenger is the only current gen muscle car that has not strayed from being an unapologetic muscle car. The challenger GT is a very odd trim level, basically for people who want the look of the challenger, but the safety of a durango. The v6 challengers are pathetic, I can't imagine driving one with added weight too.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

The FRS has very shitty tires. The brake performance gives a good indication of this. With good tires the 1.09g lateral acceleration of Camaro can be surpassed easy. We all know that the stock tires were chosen to give a tail happy nature. Overall, a Camaro will be faster because it has much more power and not because it has better handling.

Here a nice video of how important is to choose good tires:

Gd.... quit making excuses. I would love to see a heavily modified frs' numbers posted and compared. This car was never meant to be put up against that competition. Enjoy the car for what it is, an entry level sporty car.

[Impureclient]

Here's a modified one.
[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1Tue_zyMQI"]86 TRD Griffon Concept 5th test - YouTube[/ame]
This one seems to "handle" other high end competition quite nicely. 58:407 seconds around Tsukuba.

Here are some other best lap times: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/tsukuba

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

Here's a modified one.

This one seems to "handle" other high end competition quite nicely. 58:407 seconds around Tsukuba.

Here are some other best lap times: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/tsukuba

Ok, now we are losing all sense of scope bringing a full on factory backed racecar to help a cause.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Ok, now we are losing all sense of scope bringing a full on factory backed racecar to help a cause.

It's only 230 HP though

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by Impureclient

It's only 230 HP though

Big power update for 2018 my confirmed.