FRS/BRZ vs 2013 Base Mustang GT

[thill]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I completely agree with this, as well. While yes, people make their buying decisions based on what is right for them and their preferences/values, one can keep an open mind and try new things. Maybe you don't know you want a svelt corner carver like an FRS unless you look past the hp numbers first, yeah?

When I got out looking, I even test the ones that have "no chance", because they might surprise me. It's only your time that's a-wastin'. No harm, no foul to anybody else.

You also know really quickly which cars you don't like

I really did not even have to drive the Camaro off the lot once I sat in it.. Just was not the car for me...

As for an earlier comment from somebody about the Mustang feeling too big, I think that was my biggest turnoff. Engine, gear box and clutch were good. Handling (drove a V6 with the performance pack, and have been a passenger in a 2012 GT) was better than I expected. I am just used to smaller Asian cars that do not have that big hood But wow. The GT is a beast. It really moves for a $28K car. Blast to drive the V6, the V8 would just be even more of a blast...

Retro styling is a little dated for me also, but the upcoming Mustang (if it is close to the renders) is looking really good.

I definitely want to give the Focus ST a drive as well. I drove a Focus SE manual and was not overly impressed after reading all the rave reviews.

Same with the VW GTI (manual). That car really left me wanting more after having driven a Mazda Speed3. Interior was top notch, but the performance and handling was a letdown.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by phillip

Gee if only there were some way to figure out what you wanted out of a car like say.... test driving! Sure you can look up online numbers and figures but sometimes it's hard to put in perspective something like just how little trunk capacity a car might have until you see it in person.

Although I don't have a reference (and don't know if one could be found), I'd say that probably 80% (and that's on the conservative side) of car purchasers start their search based on a money cap. I think it's fair to compare anything in there with each other, be it SUVs, trucks, sports cars, motorcycles, horses, or your own damn feet. Anything to get you from Point A to Point B. There are positives and negatives to every option, and to say that two things so close as a mustang and an frs can't be compared is just ludicrous to me.

Perhaps you quoted me before I was done editing.

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Mustang = Don't want a car that big
Miata = Don't want a car that small
Gen Coupe = Don't want a car that ugly

FR-S/BRZ = a car that wasn't to small, not to big and sexy as hell....it was "just right"...sorta speak. I would test drive those cars for the sake of test driving them. But the ultimate "want/need" will supersede my impression of the test drive. I might go drive the GC and think it's an awesome machine. But living with how ugly it is to me is not something I'm willing to compromise on it. Same said for the Stang and Miata.

Not necessary to test drive to figure that stuff out.


FYI....I have been in a 2013 Mustang GT with Track package. My close friend owns it. We recently took it to Memphis to run down at MIR for a track day. It had but 1500miles on it and it's already suspension modded, intake/exhaust + tune. Very cool car. Not a car I would ever buy though as it does not suit me. Again, to big for my taste.

[thill]

Originally Posted by phillip

Gee if only there were some way to figure out what you wanted out of a car like say.... test driving! Sure you can look up online numbers and figures but sometimes it's hard to put in perspective something like just how little trunk capacity a car might have until you see it in person.

Although I don't have a reference (and don't know if one could be found), I'd say that probably 80% (and that's on the conservative side) of car purchasers start their search based on a money cap. I think it's fair to compare anything in there with each other, be it SUVs, trucks, sports cars, motorcycles, horses, or your own damn feet. Anything to get you from Point A to Point B. There are positives and negatives to every option, and to say that two things so close as a mustang and an frs can't be compared is just ludicrous to me.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Needs and preferences....it's all about YOUR needs and preferences. Comparing numbers does not make sense as they are in two different classes.

[phillip]

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Perhaps you quoted me before I was done editing.




Not necessary to test drive to figure that stuff out.

Oh, ok well that's all fine and good then. But to say that there's no point in comparing cars to people with different values is a little confusing. That's the whole point of this subforum. I can understanding not being able to determine which is 'better' overall between two people, as they can weigh individual things differently, but some of the individual things (speed around a certain track, weight, cost, etc) can be quantified and one will be better than the other. Then the reviewer weighs how important each is to him or herself, throws in subjective things like steering feel, comfort, accessories, and the wild card 'fun factor' to come out which they feel is better. Unless one car is clearly better in every single category, people will always argue about which one is better. That's the point of this subforum.

Edit:

Originally Posted by SnapOv3st3r

Needs and preferences....it's all about YOUR needs and preferences. Comparing numbers does not make sense as they are in two different classes.

I see the point you're trying to make, but if this subforum was only about comparing cars that are extremely similar to the frs (no mustang, miata, or s2k allowed) then there would be no threads.

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by phillip

Although I don't have a reference (and don't know if one could be found), I'd say that probably 80% (and that's on the conservative side) of car purchasers start their search based on a money cap. I think it's fair to compare anything in there with each other, be it SUVs, trucks, sports cars, motorcycles, horses, or your own damn feet. Anything to get you from Point A to Point B. There are positives and negatives to every option, and to say that two things so close as a mustang and an frs can't be compared is just ludicrous to me.

Agreed, and that's pretty much how I do it, which was my point that started all this when I mentioned the ZL1 in the same breath as the FR-S. I'm glad I didn't publish my entire "shopping list", I probably would have been banned for life!

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by phillip

Was this the automatic or the DCT cause there's a big difference there...

Steptronic. Auto. Modern autos if done right with adequate cooling, lockup tq converters, and rev matching are in some ways better then dct. I traded in a 12 S4 with DCT and it sucked in manual mode.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by phillip

Oh, ok well that's all fine and good then. But to say that there's no point in comparing cars to people with different values is a little confusing.

I reckon the better wording would be...no point in "arguing" about it to someone who has different values. It will be never ending essentially. Not going to convince someone one way or the other. Expressing what you find appealing about it is a different story, and that part is cool.

Originally Posted by phillip

I see the point you're trying to make, but if this subforum was only about comparing cars that are extremely similar to the frs (no mustang, miata, or s2k allowed) then there would be no threads.

I wouldn't go that extreme to say no threads. We still have plenty to talk about in regards to the actual car itself. New R&D is happening all over the place so, good eye candy coming soon.

I am very surprised at the amount of people actually taking their FR-S/BRZ's to the track on this site. I was expecting a lot less motivation to track the car from the vast majority of this site as a whole. Could be that it's a somewhat older crowd.

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by alyon

In reality the PP is only fitted on 1 in 50 mustangs. It also provides a very significant performance advantage changing out the suspension, sway bar, struts, diff, wheels/tires, and brakes. So saying PP v6 performs better than an frs is fair. Saying all v6 mustangs do is not.


Now if we are talking about the 5.0 that a whole different story.

This thread is about the 5.0...why cant people comprehend that? is it because the you can get a 5.0 for 27-28k that it is such a overwhelming better buy? seems thats what it is or atleast in the minds of Ft86/FRS/BRZ buyers its showing a inferiority complex,when in reality more choices are better than limited choices.We have 2 threads on the V6 Stang but yet it keeps coming up constantly...to deflect the reality that you can get a GT for the same price as a BRZ...

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by Tbomb 25

the reality that you can get a GT for the same price as a BRZ...

As it stands right now, I talked to a Ford salesman the other day who was trying to move a fully loaded Base GT for 31.5k

That is invoice. Without the Track pkg, tech pkg, and recaros, we're down around 27-28k.

When I went to a Subaru dealer to look at the BRZ Limited, the salesman said they could order me one, but I'd be paying above MSRP, which was the same price range.

Standard BRZ's and FRS'es will cost a few thou less, but the 5.0 can be had for roughly the same.

Edit: to elaborate, because Ford is trying to desperately move the GT right now (Camaros are outselling them and lighter stangs are in the works possibly with IRS), you can buy them for invoice. Because the BRZ is so new and sold in small numbers, Subaru wants MSRP. This may change over time, but right now you need a $30,000 check to take either one home.

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

BS. I opened many eyes at the track with the steptronic 335i versus all comers at BMWCCA events and intend to do the same with this car. Manuals are dinosaurs in a world of sequential gearboxes.

News flash the 335i and Triplets auto is not a elite auto tranny or no where near the league of a GTR or Benz trans pointblank no matter how you spin this....

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

What?! What the hell are you talking about? How did you infer anything like this from my post?

All I was saying is that the guy had the option of buying an expensive performance car (that others here have called oversized), but he decided to buy a less expensive FRS and do other things with the money he saved. Why is this such a difficult concept?

That wasnt for you...that was for the guy that said that crap...your a good poster with good knowledge....i read your stuff on the epic Mustang thread over on 370z.com the best thread ever might i add with all you guys humor and great info and tight relationships. Even tho the Stang wasnt 1 of your favorites you took the time to learn that it wasnt just a muscle car and infact has transitioned to a true sports car...i respect your thoughts,me personally im a car guy above a brand guy.

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

As it stands right now, I talked to a Ford salesman the other day who was trying to move a fully loaded Base GT for 31.5k

That is invoice. Without the Track pkg, tech pkg, and recaros, we're down around 27-28k.

When I went to a Subaru dealer to look at the BRZ Limited, the salesman said they could order me one, but I'd be paying above MSRP, which was the same price range.

Standard BRZ's and FRS'es will cost a few thou less, but the 5.0 can be had for roughly the same.

Edit: to elaborate, because Ford is trying to desperately move the GT right now (Camaros are outselling them and lighter stangs are in the works possibly with IRS), you can buy them for invoice. Because the BRZ is so new and sold in small numbers, Subaru wants MSRP. This may change over time, but right now you need a $30,000 check to take either one home.

True but a premium is squarely at the 5.0's price..and if you can find them you can get 2012's for the price of the FRS in premium trim.

[Tbomb 25]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

Happy we could entertain you.



In a straight line or on a track, no. In the real world, I would say yes depending on your definition of "outhandles". For me, the ZL1 is not a DD driver candidate, which was what I was after.

I agree that the Mustang V6 or the GT would make decent daily drivers, and would be OK with either, and have one in the family as MomHawk is the Mustang fan. Like the ZL1, the GT500 and the Shelbys don't meet that definition for me.

Again, different 4-strokes for different folks. There's lots of cars I can afford that I would consider better in one way or the other than the FR-S, but that doesn't mean I would want to DD them, or would want to pay the price differential.

Im just gonna leave this alone...lmao