FR-S vs S2000

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Secondhandloser

I was always impressed with the factory performance of the EJs in the RS's(bearing in mind the time), but I guess "built for high performance" is somewhat subjective.

well the EJ251-EJ254...found in the impreza RS was also found in the rest of the Subaru cars with absolutely no variation. The performance on the impreza RS was better due to the fact that it was the lightest car out of the fleet making bringing fourth a stronger p:w compared to its sisters.

So whatever engine performance the RS had...it was the same as the rest of the subaru fleet from 00-onward. Which was campaigned for reliability and was appropriately built (even if somewhat lacking) to support most AWD subarus.

when we talk about designed/built for high performance...we mostly consider structure, among many different factors and not just total power output on a given powerband.

So yeah, "built for high performance" can be sorta subjective. But the majority of designers and engineers will share similar theory when given the task to build a high performance engine to meet a certain goal.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by WingsofWar

thats because there's never really been a N/A production boxer from subaru that was built for high performance.

subaru's are better known for consistently good economy and averaging mediocre output at very low powerband

never have they attempted a pure sports car that was built around the premis of N/A. Even if they have entered and won several rallies in the the past with their N/A sports sedans.

FA20 is a much different outlook on performance for Subaru, n/a and turbocharged.

My 4EAT EJ22 Legacy disagrees with you. Heh...

[WingsofWar]

Originally Posted by Dimman

My 4EAT EJ22 Legacy disagrees with you. Heh...

lol touche...

[termigni]

Originally Posted by cassidy0998

It's a simple fact that the S2000 gets pretty bad mpg. 18 city and 25 hwy. I know the S2000 is a sporty fun little car, but that isn't that great at all, almost in RX-8 mpg territory.

LOL if you don't know what you are talking about, don't talk.

18/25 IS great for such sports car and it definitely gets a LOT better MPG than a RX8. It may not get as good MPG as the FRS/BRZ but hey FRS/BRZ runs on Prius tires, has less HP, and they are about 13 years newer than the S2000.

You are looking into buying a sports car and crying about the MPG figures of 18/25???? Go buy a Prius C and call it a day. How are you ever going to go to a track event when your MPG will drop significantly?

I'm not at all mocking FRS/BRZ, i think they are great cars. But calling 18/25MPG horrible on a sports car that screams 9000rpm is just wrong.

Now the RX8s get HORRIBLE MPG. Go check it out on RX8club.com. :happy0180:

[termigni]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

lol... I 100% agree that the s2k is slow on the street. And I wouldn't want one if it's just to drive around town. But for those who think that the s2k doesn't perform or is a dog, you really REALLY need to get it out on the autocross and/or track. This is where the s2k shines. Hardparkers and street racers need not apply (sadly it seems that they are becoming the demographic for the s2k). This is just IMO.

The benefit of the BRZ/FR-S over the s2k:
- no need a roll bar/cage to go on track
- no need for a tire trailer (room for race wheels/tires in the trunk)
- more space
- has bluetooth and NAV
- steering

I'm not saying the s2k is the best sports car out there. But it certainly is the best one for the price range. The next competitor is in a different performance/price bracket - Lotus & Porsche.

agreed 100%

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by iLuveKetchup

lol... I 100% agree that the s2k is slow on the street. And I wouldn't want one if it's just to drive around town. But for those who think that the s2k doesn't perform or is a dog, you really REALLY need to get it out on the autocross and/or track. This is where the s2k shines. Hardparkers and street racers need not apply (sadly it seems that they are becoming the demographic for the s2k). This is just IMO.

The benefit of the BRZ/FR-S over the s2k:
- no need a roll bar/cage to go on track
- no need for a tire trailer (room for race wheels/tires in the trunk)
- more space
- has bluetooth and NAV
- steering

I'm not saying the s2k is the best sports car out there. But it certainly is the best one for the price range. The next competitor is in a different performance/price bracket - Lotus & Porsche.

Yesterday, I drove te FR-S. I don't think the S2k is "slow on the street" compared to the FR-S.

But I get your point.

[brianc]

I'm probably going to get bashed for this but we've already drag raced an AP1 vs a 2013 6MT FR-S. Not even comparable. S2000 won everytime. They are both slow on the street. They are both torqueless until you take it up to high revs. The S2000 actually seems quicker because the gears seem shorter. Stock for stock though. I feel like the FR-S has much better suspension. When they are both modified. Different story.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by brianc

I'm probably going to get bashed for this but we've already drag raced an AP1 vs a 2013 6MT FR-S. Not even comparable. S2000 won everytime. They are both slow on the street. They are both torqueless until you take it up to high revs. The S2000 actually seems quicker because the gears seem shorter. Stock for stock though. I feel like the FR-S has much better suspension. When they are both modified. Different story.

Hmm. I thought my AP2 had a perfect suspension for a street sports car. Nice road feel, but still comfortable. Tracking and racing would be another matter.

But talking about suspension on the internet is like talking about the kind of girls you are attracted to. It can get both complicated and subjective.

[brianc]

Absolutely agree. This is only what me and the guys that were driving the FR-S and S2000 side by side agreed on. The FR-S to us seemed to have a better suspension in terms of performance. Less roll than the S2000 and when at the limit inspired more confidence than the S2000.

[Marrk]

I wish the FR-S was a better car. I'm dyin' to buy a sports car . . . but this thing is just not making me fall in love.

How about a lighter, faster cheaper Miata?

Okay, that's off topic. Sorry.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I wish the FR-S was a better car. I'm dyin' to buy a sports car . . . but this thing is just not making me fall in love.

How about a lighter, faster cheaper Miata?

Okay, that's off topic. Sorry.

To feed the off topic, 2ZZ swapped MR2? Insane power to weight ratio.

[Marrk]

Originally Posted by serialk11r

To feed the off topic, 2ZZ swapped MR2? Insane power to weight ratio.

I'm all abut power-to-weight, but I'm a simple sort of a guy. Engine swapping is much too complicated for me. Just thinking about wiring harnesses makes me want to lie down for a while. Besides, I like the car builder to build the car. I'm just the car buyer and the car driver.

[serialk11r]

Originally Posted by Marrk

I'm all abut power-to-weight, but I'm a simple sort of a guy. Engine swapping is much too complicated for me. Just thinking about wiring harnesses makes me want to lie down for a while. Besides, I like the car builder to build the car. I'm just the car buyer and the car driver.

You might be able to find one that's already swapped, I looked on some MR2 forums and it seems like there are a ton of 2ZZ swapped cars rolling around. I think it costs like 5000 to pay someone to do the swap, everything included, but not sure.

[Marrk]

I just plain like the idea that a car builder might start with an idea or two, then realize it. The S2000, for example, is widely under-appreciated, even by those who appretiate the car, because people have no consideration for all the things that were on Honda's mind. They just look at the performance numbers.

I could talk about this all day, but you can read Dan Carney's book on the s2k. (Self-Aggrandizing Statement: If you don't have a copy, my copy is up for sale.)