2.0 >2.4 NA by Monster Sport

[celek]

Originally Posted by Traktor

I was paying attention. The whp determination is an unconfirmed assumption you have made based on a picture of an unrelated dyno run testing a different product. All their other media has "243ps up from 200ps STOCK". Stock normally doesn't mean stock except for an intake, it means stock. And the official stock chp figure for pre-17 twins is.... 200ps.
For the record, I hope you are actually right.


No argument that more mid range torque gets you out of the corners, but even then you actually get roughly similar 20-30 ft/lbs from about 5000rpm to redline with the ACE header and tune. Perhaps the 2.4 has more torque lower than that, but only if the header design eliminates the torque dip like the ACE header does. Given the header in the video appears to be a conventional EL design, you would think not.



Further to that, I don't see any reference to included headers with the engine. Perhaps these guys have conservatively quoted the power figure with a stock-like tune that would assume customers will simply bolt the factory exhaust on?


Maybe ACE should hook up with these guys and see what is possible?

And I cannot wait to see how celek's build goes. Surely its time for an update hey bud?

Hey if you guys want to send me money for my 40th BDay next month I can afford to finish it up. Kids college cost eats up my fun money and I have a 2nd one graduating HS in 3 months

As for the conservative number due to Government Regulations in Japan I am sure they developed this like a CARB complaint setup. Although 2.4 liters it is not an all out extreme build.. i.e. E85 Race exhaust setup. Also probably made for pump gas hence the 12.8 compression even though they have higher octane in Japan

[guybo]

why the hell would anyone spend 17123.9055 US Dollar (google conversion) when for a fraction of that amount you can upgrade internals, slap on a new trans and install a turbo and still have money left over for a hooker to pick up with your new car? Or, better yet, LS swap.

this is a neat lab experiment and everything but for that kind of dough, it makes no sense.

[Captain Snooze]

Originally Posted by Tokay444

You can have a lot of one without a lot of the other, and vice versa.

I am saying for any given torque curve there is only one corresponding power curve and vice versa. At any given rpm if the engine is producing x torque then it is producing y power. That's what I mean when I say you can't talk about power and torque as independent items.

[-Willis-86touge]

Originally Posted by Traktor

I was paying attention. The whp determination is an unconfirmed assumption you have made based on a picture of an unrelated dyno run testing a different product. All their other media has "243ps up from 200ps STOCK". Stock normally doesn't mean stock except for an intake, it means stock. And the official stock chp figure for pre-17 twins is.... 200ps.
For the record, I hope you are actually right.


No argument that more mid range torque gets you out of the corners, but even then you actually get roughly similar 20-30 ft/lbs from about 5000rpm to redline with the ACE header and tune. Perhaps the 2.4 has more torque lower than that, but only if the header design eliminates the torque dip like the ACE header does. Given the header in the video appears to be a conventional EL design, you would think not.



Further to that, I don't see any reference to included headers with the engine. Perhaps these guys have conservatively quoted the power figure with a stock-like tune that would assume customers will simply bolt the factory exhaust on?


Maybe ACE should hook up with these guys and see what is possible?

And I cannot wait to see how celek's build goes. Surely its time for an update hey bud?

I don't disagree with anything you said here! I did make an assumption and could be wrong. But the extra displace has to do something.

[fika84]

Originally Posted by celek

I am including Labor and Assembly, I am also working on an affordable version of my kit. You too could have a 2.3 liter engine assembled for under $10k
There are some wasted services in there such as WPC. That coating wears off after time. One reason I did not opt for it. Now if you had a dedicated race car and lots of money to rebuild every 10k miles to apply WPC again and again go for it.

I love following the progress on your car. Just wanted to clarify.. WPC is not a coating, it actually modifies the surface of the metal.. it'll wear down as the metal wears down, so in that sense it's similar.. but it will last longer than a coating I would think.

[Lantana frs]

Other than the substantial gains a good header and tune provide, the inability of the aftermarket to cost effectively raise na output tells me that Toyota and subaru understand internal combustion. Race and replace.

[celek]

As for the numbers figure it looks more like a false claim
2.0 liter 200 HP
2.4 liter just add 4 tenths right? its 20% more displacement 240HP wait we bumped CR 243HP

[ichitaka05]

Originally Posted by guybo

why the hell would anyone spend 17123.9055 US Dollar (google conversion) when for a fraction of that amount you can upgrade internals, slap on a new trans and install a turbo and still have money left over for a hooker to pick up with your new car? Or, better yet, LS swap.

this is a neat lab experiment and everything but for that kind of dough, it makes no sense.

That the whole thing isn't it? See the limit. Yeah, it's damn expensive, but it's good to see some shops are seeing the limits of this engine.

[laextreme5]

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

Other than the substantial gains a good header and tune provide, the inability of the aftermarket to cost effectively raise na output tells me that Toyota and subaru understand internal combustion. Race and replace.

Any motor can be made to breathe better. Sometimes it just takes longer and is more complicated to find the restriction. the FA20s time will come.

regarding this 2.4 by Monster Sport. My guess is thats a extremely conservative rating so as they know for a fact every motor they sell will produce at minimum that power.

Mark my words there is a restriction, its not planely obvious but there is one. it just needs to be found.

[Lantana frs]

Originally Posted by laextreme5

Any motor can be made to breathe better. Sometimes it just takes longer and is more complicated to find the restriction. the FA20s time will come.

regarding this 2.4 by Monster Sport. My guess is thats a extremely conservative rating so as they know for a fact every motor they sell will produce at minimum that power.

Mark my words there is a restriction, its not planely obvious but there is one. it just needs to be found.

Without additional rpm and a lot of it, I don't see big-time gains. At that point I.could've bought a faster car for less money.

[laextreme5]

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

Without additional rpm and a lot of it, I don't see big-time gains. At that point I.could've bought a faster car for less money.

True. And most other motors that made 100hp revved higher than the fa20. I personally feel as if the rpm is increased with proper cams and possibly a different inatke manifold we could see some real gains.

Id love to do this but im currently saving for a house and its still my dd. Im looking forward to Celek's build as its a similar route id go about it.

[gtengr]

Originally Posted by fika84

I love following the progress on your car. Just wanted to clarify.. WPC is not a coating, it actually modifies the surface of the metal.. it'll wear down as the metal wears down, so in that sense it's similar.. but it will last longer than a coating I would think.

The WPC surface also wears slower since it increases the hardness of the surface and reduces the friction coefficient.

[fika84]

Originally Posted by gtengr

The WPC surface also wears slower since it increases the hardness of the surface and reduces the friction coefficient.

Agreed! I did it to my MFactory Diff Clutch plates in hopes that it reduced chatter and extended plate life. I have nothing to compare the chatter to... but it doesn't seem that bad overall.

[YCW]

Yes, WPC treatment is highly recommended