CSG Mike's 2017 Baseline dynos

[sato]

Sub'd

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

@DeliciousTuning and I have already dumped and sent roms to Ecutek; they're available with the latest update that just came out.

The o2 sensor scaling is also scaled down to 10 afr now in 2017 stock rom (old roms only down to 12)

so if you now have ecutek mapping available then you should be able to log using cars front 02 sensor.

be interested to see log of the stock 2017 with commanded vs Actual measured AFR by cars 02 sensor, they seem to be quite accurate , ratrher than the tail pipe sensor.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by steve99

The o2 sensor scaling is also scaled down to 10 afr now in 2017 stock rom (old roms only down to 12)

so if you now have ecutek mapping available then you should be able to log using cars front 02 sensor.

be interested to see log of the stock 2017 with commanded vs Actual measured AFR by cars 02 sensor, they seem to be quite accurate , ratrher than the tail pipe sensor.

Per my AIM Solo DL, the tailpipe reading on the dyno is accurate...

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

Per my AIM Solo DL, the tailpipe reading on the dyno is accurate...

Mate im not trying to argue simply trying to understand whats going on.

an aim solo is a lap timer ? so im not sure whats going on their.

yes your tail pipe afr device may be highly accurate , but how does it account for the changes on 02 levels due to the two catylitic converters ?, those may chage the residual oxygen levels based on the amounts and types of gasses passing through them.

isnt that why the primary fueling o2 sensor is placed so close to exhaust ports and before any cats and why you mount widebands before cats ?

anyway if that aim solo thing can monitor measured afr via obd port, can it also monitor commanded afr.

be interested to know if the measured vs commanded afr at wot follows or is 25% or so different
as per ol fuel tables

[MaximeT]

AIM Solo DL reads OBD too.

[CSG Mike]

Originally Posted by steve99

Mate im not trying to argue simply trying to understand whats going on.

an aim solo is a lap timer ? so im not sure whats going on their.

yes your tail pipe afr device may be highly accurate , but how does it account for the changes on 02 levels due to the two catylitic converters ?, those may chage the residual oxygen levels based on the amounts and types of gasses passing through them.

isnt that why the primary fueling o2 sensor is placed so close to exhaust ports and before any cats and why you mount widebands before cats ?

anyway if that aim solo thing can monitor measured afr via obd port, can it also monitor commanded afr.

be interested to know if the measured vs commanded afr at wot follows or is 25% or so different
as per ol fuel tables

It's a datalogger that also captures info out of OBD2, similar to any other OBD2 device. I'm looking at raw Lambda, which sits at between 0.87-0.91 during a WOT pull.

I'll see if I can get some WOT logs tomorrow.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

FWIW it seems comon practice for race engines to run 13s, so I was recently told. It wouldn't be that far fetched that they've managed a way to make it run well much leaner.

That's what we tuned all the sport bikes to on the dyno, no cats.

In fact, if the engine would take it without knock, we'd tune them up to 13.5:1 AFR.

[Lantana frs]

Maybe they've refined the fa20 in terms of combustion efficiency and fuel atomization? Probably have it figured out in a few months. Lol. Thankfully the community now has reputable tuning and parts resources. I remember it being a shit show for the first couple of yrs.

[nunonuna]

Originally Posted by steve99

Yes the ecu software logic in the 2017 model is new and different to previous model (manuals only the auto appears to be same old logic), their are now two fueling and timing maps. Not sure how the ecu interpolates between the two sets of maps.

The OL fueling maps are even richer than previous stock tunes some areas targeting down to 10.3 afr where the older ecu maps were 10.7

New pi\di ratios with 20 to 30% port injection being used all the time at high load unlike previous mapping with 100% di between 2800 and 4800 or so.

new cam timing maps with addition rows in rpm axis assume for finer control of cam timing

different beast

Sorry if my question is dumb, but does anyone think it is possible to use that 17 ecu logic on previous model years? I mean logic not the tune.

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[phrosty]

Originally Posted by nunonuna

Sorry if my question is dumb, but does anyone think it is possible to use that 17 ecu logic on previous model years? I mean logic not the tune.

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

What would be the point?

[steve99]

Originally Posted by nunonuna

Sorry if my question is dumb, but does anyone think it is possible to use that 17 ecu logic on previous model years? I mean logic not the tune.

Sent from my SM-N930V using Tapatalk

AFAIK the actual ECU hardware is same, so it would be theoreticly possible to flash the 2017 ecu rom firmware like K00C to an older car.

However, they may also be hardware and firmware changes to other modules in car like dash vsc abs and various other control units. This may (and likely will) cause problems as the new ecu firmware may expect different information or signals from the older control units in the car.


The new ecu tune is also designed to work with the new components like intake and changed header. Their is a lot of logic changes in the new firmware with fueling and timing (multiple timing and fueling maps) and its not understood yet. It may be at least a month or two before tuners work out how to use this new logic effectively.


Cross flashing ecu with different firmware is not something you want to do on a whim, their may be unknown issues or erratic behavior on road and in worse case ECU lockup , the ecu feeds into to and receives info from other control modules, so its possible that ecu firmware incompatibility may cause something weird like ABS or stability control issues.

From past experience you can often run older firmware in newer car but the newer firmware does not often work in older cars, but its suck it and see.

ie D00G firmware wont work in A01G car but A01G woks fine in D00G car.

some firmware is cross compatible eg

A01G firmware works in USA cars originally running C rom firmware like B01C

[steve99]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

It's a datalogger that also captures info out of OBD2, similar to any other OBD2 device. I'm looking at raw Lambda, which sits at between 0.87-0.91 during a WOT pull.

I'll see if I can get some WOT logs tomorrow.

Guy with oft did some logging, some parameters not logging correctly but yep looks like it runs about 12.5 AFR full throttle.


Other interesting thing is STFT is active the whole time , which may suggest its running Closed Loop fueling, which would explain why it ait following the CL fuel tables in ROM, and the very stable AFR, .... or the logging is incorrect.


Just speculation though :-)

@Kodename47
@CSG Mike




see here


http://www.datazap.me/u/justinco/201...-2-4-7-9-10-11


second log


http://www.datazap.me/u/justinco/201...10-11&mark=116




full post here
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=46

[Traktor]

Originally Posted by CSG Mike

I'm tempted to see how long the power carries with a higher redline...

This would be very interesting! Most of the 2017 dynos I've seen don't have the curve fall off the cliff after 7000rpm like the pre 2017 examples.

Could this mean the 2017 might respond better to more aggressive cams?



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