FRS/BRZ vs 2013 Base Mustang GT

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

Why is it anyone that defends a car other than the FRS should not be welcome on this forum? Or better yet why can't someone appreciate multiple cars?

I joined this site because I love all performance makes and wanted to learn about this car's ups and downs from its community, and to help the community with my knowledge of RWD performance. If I saw an FT86 while I'm out with other Z owners, I'd welcome you over and want to check out your vehicle and show you mine.




Incidentally, I did test drive a GT tonight. Base GT with Track Package and Recaros. The acceleration is mindboggling. I'm going back for a longer test drive on Saturday, possibly trading in my daily driver Mazda6. I need to try out sport mode and put her through the turns. But because this dealership says they're trying to move it out the door, the salesman has already told me I'd be paying less than invoice.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

A test drive at a dealership? That's barely scratching the surface.
You didn't say we had a money limit on mods

In your quote back. I didn't see you talk of center of gravity and weight distribution.
We can throw money at any car and make it go better but starting with lower center of gravity, lighter weight (I forgot to mention that part. oops) and a better balanced weight distribution will always be a better handling car.

So how do you compare the Stang to the Corvette, Porsche Cayman, Boxster or Carrera, Ferrari, Lambo, Bugati, on & on? Oh you can't compare those cars to a stang? There's is always a pecking order. So when toyota comes out with new Supra, then what?
But for the money, out of the box, the FRS is one sweet car that handles like a Cayman at half the price. And the Cayman will always out handle the Mustang.

why do you keep implying that a)weight distribution matters that much and b)the mustang has worse weight distribution? better weight balance does not always make for a better handling car. thats simply nonsense. why are you bringing up cars that cost an order of magnitude compared to these cars?

[10splaya22]

Originally Posted by camper

I own a 2013 V6 with Perf Pkg and 6 speed manual and no other options. This car stays in the garage and is driven 'when I feel like it'. It is very fast - enough so that it will scare most sane people.

Drives: 09 Prius, 13 V6 Perf

I guess your V6 stang would feel fast compared to a prius?

[Secondhandloser]

Originally Posted by detainu

But the GT was never the car even being compared to the FRS/BRZ. It was the V6 with Track Package added. Just to feel like you even need to justify a Mustang GT with a 420HP V8 to a FRS/BRZ with 200HP 4, that's the hilarious part. I think this post is like the guy in the video trying to say his 2008 350Z Convertible is far superior than the FRS. Who are you trying to convince, others or yourself, cause you don't have an FRS/BRZ?

Did you miss the thread title and the OP?

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

Streets of Willow is not a twisty mountain road. I bought the FRS for twisty mountain roads. When TRD makes the supercharger then I'll plenty straight line speed for such a light car. The stock FRS chassis is so much better than Mustang and the Genesis coupe. The Mustang will always handle like a tractor.

How's the tail of the dragon for a twisty mountain road?

Having owned a decent number of cars in my time, I can guarantee that the Toyobaru is more than a factory SC add-on away from the 5.0 on any road that doesn't look like a Gymkhana course.

Originally Posted by detainu

If these guys are faithful and true mustang fans, why are they on a FRS/BRZ site? Once again, trying to convince us or themselves. We are not on a mustang site for a reason.

I'm a car fanatic. I'll drive anything. I gave serious thought to the BRZ, but it doesn't quite have "it" for me at this point. I definitely plan to follow the car, and it is a possibility in the future, especially if they step up the power to at least S2K levels, and the aftermarket does well.

[camper]

I know someone with a beautiful black Cayman S, Tan Leather with a 6 speed manual. Incredible car. To say that the BRZ FRS can handle as well is saying a lot but to say that it can keep up with the Cayman is false. But what's the point?

I paid 23,800 out the door for my Red V6 Perf Pkg stang plus tax for a 5.5 second 160 mph car (if you SCT the speed limiter - add aluminum drive shaft). Some will say if it is such a great car why didn't Ford already put the aluminum shaft in it to begin with. Answer - $700 Drive shaft does not equate on a car with this price point. But the great news is since the Mustang has a monstrous number of after market parts always available, the person that wants to know that their car will do a buck sixty, can do that very easily.

Back to my point - respect the price point when you make comparisons or it doesn't hold water. Everyone knows the GT and even the V6 mustang will get around a track in a hurry. And sure the BRZ FRS will do it probably with less tire wear and less Driver wear.

If I am heading to the track every weekend then I am going to buy the BRZ FRS at this price point. But for cruising around, managing the occasional On Ramp with Authority, and just generally enjoying the ride week in and week out - sorry but it had to be the Mustang for me.

But I am all thumbs up over the CamaroGenesisCoupeBRZFRS's of the world! They only make the breed even better.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by fatoni

why do you keep implying that a)weight distribution matters that much and b)the mustang has worse weight distribution? better weight balance does not always make for a better handling car. thats simply nonsense. why are you bringing up cars that cost an order of magnitude compared to these cars?

I agree that weight distro is not the lone factor in handling. The closer to 50/50 front/rear you get, the more balanced the car is. You also have to factor grip, turn-in, stagger vs. square setup, understeer/oversteer, drivetrain, and even the subjective "feel".

[camper]

Originally Posted by 10splaya22

I guess your V6 stang would feel fast compared to a prius?

The Prius made it possible to pay cash for the stang my friend......

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by thill

Not true. Look at the charts from the Streets Of Willow Springs:
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/..._photo_03.html

The BRZ/FR-S were not really able to hang with the Mustang (V6) or the Gencoupe (4 cyl turbo), even in some of those crazy turns at Streets Of Willow Springs

Those lap times are worthless because the Mustang had track package tires on it and the BRZ had Prius tires on it. Did you not read the comments? "Undoubtedly, this Mustang is a highly capable car -- thank you, Pirelli," said Lago. Pobst said after hot-lapping: "Big tire advantage. The tires have a ton of grip. They feel like the slicks I run in the Pirelli World Challenge [racing series] on my K-Pax Volvo."

If anything given the difference in rubber I think it proves the BRZ would be faster on equal spec tires. Why they don't put these cars on equal rubber is beyond me.

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by camper

I know someone with a beautiful black Cayman S, Tan Leather with a 6 speed manual. Incredible car. To say that the BRZ FRS can handle as well is saying a lot but to say that it can keep up with the Cayman is false. But what's the point?

Maybe, but when the Cayman start blowing smoke from oil ingestion and power steering fails - both known Cayman S track issues I used to track one- then what?

[camper]

Well actually I read the article and they used a Premium V6 with track package. If you are going to take it to the track all the time, why not get the base w/track package which is about 50 lbs lighter. Now the volley is back on the side of the stang. The war of words will never end. These are street cars people. If you want to see something amazing - read up on what Toyota did in 9 months to get their hybrid LMP1 race car ready for Le Mans this year - now that is something to talk about.

Here are some pics of my humble red mustang (or one just like it minus the window tint I added).
http://www.windingroad.com/photos/ga...-test-fleet/#9

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

I agree that weight distro is not the lone factor in handling. The closer to 50/50 front/rear you get, the more balanced the car is. You also have to factor grip, turn-in, stagger vs. square setup, understeer/oversteer, drivetrain, and even the subjective "feel".

thats not even true for a couple reasons. one, you should be moving when you are turning so you wont have the same weight distribution as when the car is static. two, its not so much the weight distribution but the front roll couple that decides the way the car handles. maybe splitting hairs a bit but i do agree that approaching 50/50 is probably not a bad thing although i dont know where the "ideal" distribution lies.

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Those lap times are worthless because the Mustang had track package tires on it and the BRZ had Prius tires on it. Did you not read the comments? "Undoubtedly, this Mustang is a highly capable car -- thank you, Pirelli," said Lago. Pobst said after hot-lapping: "Big tire advantage. The tires have a ton of grip. They feel like the slicks I run in the Pirelli World Challenge [racing series] on my K-Pax Volvo."

If anything given the difference in rubber I think it proves the BRZ would be faster on equal spec tires.

how does it prove that the brz would be faster on equal spec tires? all it proves is that the mustang offers more for the money than the brz. the price of new tires puts the brz into mustang gt territory which is going to stomp on the brz as far as numbers go. why do you think its fair to change stuff on the brz but not the mustang?

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by fatoni

how does it prove that the brz would be faster on equal spec tires? all it proves is that the mustang offers more for the money than the brz. the price of new tires puts the brz into mustang gt territory which is going to stomp on the brz as far as numbers go. why do you think its fair to change stuff on the brz but not the mustang?

Tires is not changing "stuff", you can do it for free I did and if you don't know the difference in lap times between performance rubber and Prius tires I'd suggest you do some research. Even the professional drivers commented on what when discussing the Mustang? The TIRES!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by sdiver68

Tires is not changing "stuff", you can do it for free I did and if you don't know the difference in lap times between performance rubber and Prius tires I'd suggest you do some research. Even the professional drivers commented on what when discussing the Mustang? The TIRES!

you can take 500 lbs out of the mustang for free too but then its not stock. i dont think people can just go around getting new tires all the time for free so i dont think your point holds too much weight. those prius tires have a treadwear of what 240? not quite amazing but far from pedestrian. my point is that you saying that the brz is faster because of tires it doesnt have is a) no longer comparing stock v stock and b)simply an opinion you have backed by absolutely zero data

[sdiver68]

Originally Posted by fatoni

you can take 500 lbs out of the mustang for free too but then its not stock. i dont think people can just go around getting new tires all the time for free so i dont think your point holds too much weight. those prius tires have a treadwear of what 240? not quite amazing but far from pedestrian. my point is that you saying that the brz is faster because of tires it doesnt have is a) no longer comparing stock v stock and b)simply an opinion you have backed by absolutely zero data

Except the report of someone shaving 3 seconds off their lap times simply by changing tires. And my personal experience and probably the experience of anyone else out there with track time. And yes anyone can do what I did for no more than the cost of a tank of gasoline. And changing tires is still stock. You can ignore the printed comments of the test drivers if you wish, in my opinion the BRZ is faster on equal spec rubber.