FRS/BRZ vs 2013 Base Mustang GT

[Grateful Dave]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

Is that why it skids .97 from factory? Grab a supercharger, the mustang owner will grab a decent set of coilovers/bushings and rape you in your sleep.

Not saying the FRS won't do well on a mountain road but you're smoking something expensive if you think the mustang won't sodomize it.

It now becomes a building war, costing thousands of dollars more.

Does center of gravity and front to back weight distribution mean anything to you?

We are going around and around with this muscle car vs sports car comparison. The track vs a very twisty mountain road. Apples and Oranges once again. It does get old.

While off the lot, for $26,000, you can have the FRS 2+2 sports car with a very unique stiff chassis, low center of gravity, a 53/47 front to back balance, a high rev boxer engine and suspension combo that provides you with a real sport car driving pleasure. It gets good gas milage and it has a real trunk with fold down rear seats. This is the foundation of this vehicle. We can always add some more horsepower or beef up suspension, exhaust and intake, that will come in time and money no problem. But there goes your good mpg. In the mean time, I'm having a blast driving my sports car. I might be driving an econo sports car vs a $50,000 Cayman but it drives like a real sports car and not like a sports coupe or muscle car. Until you drive the FRS or the BRZ, you will never know what it is like.
Enough said, Good night now!

[Turbowned]

These "versus" threads make me LOL.

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, not which one performs best. I liken them to weapons: do you want a katana or a sledgehammer? Both are deadly, albeit in completely different ways. For those of us who value precision over brute force, the BRZ/FR-S is the obvious choice.

Now I never used to be a fan of the Mustang, having grown up a "Chevy boy". As a teen, I would've chosen an IROC-Z over a Cobra any day of the week. However, when the 5th generation Camaro turned out to be a 4,000lb brick and the Mustang stayed a little more svelte and got very impressive engines and sexy styling, I learned to really appreciate them. That said, I think the Mustang is finally a good car. They just aren't the car that I want. I will, however seriously consider one when they switch to IRS, you can count on it!

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

No clutch, No credibility, Please! I bought this for my daily driver and driving for pleasure. This is not my track car. I have had a previous badly broken left leg and I have been driving a manual for 30 years. I work 12 hour days on my feet at a hospital doing xray. So at the end of the day, my shifting get really fatigued and my shifts start to suck and I'm hating it. I'm over manual transmission. The FRS provides a 6 speed automatic that is based on the Lexus IS-F minus 2 gears, made by Aisin. The AT has a manual mode with match revving capabilities controlled by paddle shifters or from the stick shift. There's a sport mode, and snow mode. It has 34mpg highway capabilities vs manual 30mpg. This is one high tech AT. You might say it's not double clutch, oh well, it works great, who cares. I was really reluctant to go with AT but I went for it. I want to keep this car for a long time. I have the best of both worlds. Now that I have driven my FRS over thousand miles, did I make the right choice for me? Hell Yes.
If you are going to track this car, manual all the way.
If you want to "have it all" when driving on the city streets or on mountains roads, I say go with the technology and go with the automatic. For all you purists, it is all right to drive the AT. Don't knock the FRS AT unless you drive it. You might like it.

lets not act like xray is the toughest job. i do that on my days off

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

It now becomes a building war, costing thousands of dollars more.

Does center of gravity and front to back weight distribution mean anything to you?

We are going around and around with this muscle car vs sports car comparison. The track vs a very twisty mountain road. Apples and Oranges once again. It does get old.

While off the lot, for $26,000, you can have the FRS 2+2 sports car with a very unique stiff chassis, low center of gravity, a 53/47 front to back balance, a high rev boxer engine and suspension combo that provides you with a real sport car driving pleasure. It gets good gas milage and it has a real trunk with fold down rear seats. This is the foundation of this vehicle. We can always add some more horsepower or beef up suspension, exhaust and intake, that will come in time and money no problem. But there goes your good mpg. In the mean time, I'm having a blast driving my sports car. I might be driving an econo sports car vs a $50,000 Cayman but it drives like a real sports car and not like a sports coupe or muscle car. Until you drive the FRS or the BRZ, you will never know what it is like.
Enough said, Good night now!

well it would help if you stopped thinking of the stang as a muscle car. for starters, revs just as high, it has better weight distribution and similar mpg. secondly, there is over a 50% power bump you are fighting against (not to mention that any power mods are going to do much more for the 5.0 than the boxer). third, the frs simply doesnt have nearly the mechanical grip the mustang does. fourth, the mustang can still be bought at 24800. personally i dont care about numbers but you cant argue in any way really that the frs is in the same league as the mustang. dollar for dollar, the frs is always going to play catch up as far as lap times go

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

It now becomes a building war, costing thousands of dollars more.

Does center of gravity and front to back weight distribution mean anything to you?

We are going around and around with this muscle car vs sports car comparison. The track vs a very twisty mountain road. Apples and Oranges once again. It does get old.

While off the lot, for $26,000, you can have the FRS 2+2 sports car with a very unique stiff chassis, low center of gravity, a 53/47 front to back balance, a high rev boxer engine and suspension combo that provides you with a real sport car driving pleasure. It gets good gas milage and it has a real trunk with fold down rear seats. This is the foundation of this vehicle. We can always add some more horsepower or beef up suspension, exhaust and intake, that will come in time and money no problem. But there goes your good mpg. In the mean time, I'm having a blast driving my sports car. I might be driving an econo sports car vs a $50,000 Cayman but it drives like a real sports car and not like a sports coupe or muscle car. Until you drive the FRS or the BRZ, you will never know what it is like.
Enough said, Good night now!

I HAVE drove the FRS AND the BRZ and YOU were the one that said "when TRD makes a supercharger." Now all of a sudden you want to flip the script when I mention coilovers/bushings (which would still cost less than a TRD supercharger by a couple grand) and call it a building war? You mentioned a mod that would close the gap, I mentioned one that would extend it or are we not allowed to go one for one.

And while you add more horsepower and your mpg suffers the GT with a few suspension modifcations makes a LARGE jump as well and keeps the same fuel mileage. A very twisty mountain road won't be enough to close the gap. Maybe if you want you can set a few hairpins 5 feet apart all the way down the mountain, then you'll be able to say they'll stand on equal footing where anything more than a lawnmower engine can be comparable.


p.s. To be fair the TRD supercharger isn't even released yet, we've no idea the sort of power gains it'll offer given the cars compression ratio. That it's direct injected we know they can't drop the compression too low without negating the benefits of direct injection.
I hate using the term "a buddy of mine" cause it always sounds like I'm bullshitting but the college I went to had a very VERY large automotive program and being a 4 year graduate most of us were pretty close and that's quite a few cars most of us had back then or own now. But either way, a buddy of mine with a '12 5.0 on adjustables (I couldn't tell you the brand off the top of my head I'd have to ask him) DD's and tracks his car about a dozen times a year. It's lightly modded nothing serious, magnaflow, 302 intake manifold, and adjustable coilovers (he hasn't gotten himself ura bushings yet but apparently that's next on the bucket list), swears the car handles like it's on rails (take that with a grain of salt; but I can't see why it wouldn't be true). Corners pretty close to flat; I don't dispute that but I've never driven it myself. Now seeing as I've never driven his car I guess you can call it benchracing but that's WHY I mentioned the coilovers and bushings; the dudes on the stang forums swear after an inch drop and some suspension tuning the car goes from great to phenomenal. *shrug* like I said I don't own either car; I don't plan on making my BRZ or FRS decision until next year but I've driven both in stock form. My only impressions are you don't get anywhere close to the driving feel you get in the twins from the 5.0 but you don't get anywhere close to the grip and outright pull you get in the 5.0 from the twins (they were test drives, there's only so much you can do). SO OP go with what you like bro, drive both and make your decision they're both great cars and one hell of a value buy.

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by Turbowned

At the end of the day, it comes down to personal preference, not which one performs best.

This is always the salient point. When reading Vs. threads, one should always keep this in mind. I think if you're in the market for a car, you ought to explore as many options as possible, then go test drive them, do your research, and make the decision that best suits you.

But when you're in the 25k-35k price range, both of these models can be compared against each other. Both have their own advantages.


Edit: Just remember, folks, there is always something faster. The guy in the v6 stang dreams of GT, the guy in the GT dreams of Boss, the guy in the Boss dreams of Shelby. The guy in the Shelby dreams bigger, too.

[SnapOv3st3r]

LOL at all the Bench Racing....EPIC.

[SVTSHC]

And for the love of God ONE DAY I'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT A THREAD LIKE THIS AND DECIDE TO NOT JOIN THE ARGUMENT , but I can't stand when the occasional person finally gets the opportunity to drive or own a car they really and truly love then turns around and swears it's the best thing since the light bulb.

The FRS/BRZ is a GREAT car, no one is disputing that. But when you make a comparison to another car based on performance you need to be ready to hear the grim truth that even though they're priced similarly these cars are in TOTALLY different leagues. While the GT is fighting M3's the FRS/BRZ are going to battle with Miata's. And truthfully what the hell kind of mountain road driving are you legally doing that won't eventually get you killed that would put these two cars into a legitimate comparitive scope? Last time I checked racing down a mountain is something that shouldn't ever be done by anyone not on a closed course that isn't a professional. The fact that you bought this for your daily commute and believe that during that daily commute this thing outperforms a stang GT either tells me you're driving like you've got applejacks for brains or you're benchracing scenarios that you'll never take part in.

[detainu]

If these guys are faithful and true mustang fans, why are they on a FRS/BRZ site? Once again, trying to convince us or themselves. We are not on a mustang site for a reason.

[Grateful Dave]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I HAVE drove the FRS AND the BRZ and YOU were the one that said "when TRD makes a supercharger." Now all of a sudden you want to flip the script when I mention coilovers/bushings (which would still cost less than a TRD supercharger by a couple grand) and call it a building war? You mentioned a mod that would close the gap, I mentioned one that would extend it or are we not allowed to go one for one.

And while you add more horsepower and your mpg suffers the GT with a few suspension modifcations makes a LARGE jump as well and keeps the same fuel mileage. A very twisty mountain road won't be enough to close the gap. Maybe if you want you can set a few hairpins 5 feet apart all the way down the mountain, then you'll be able to say they'll stand on equal footing where anything more than a lawnmower engine can be comparable.

A test drive at a dealership? That's barely scratching the surface.
You didn't say we had a money limit on mods

In your quote back. I didn't see you talk of center of gravity and weight distribution.
We can throw money at any car and make it go better but starting with lower center of gravity, lighter weight (I forgot to mention that part. oops) and a better balanced weight distribution will always be a better handling car.

So how do you compare the Stang to the Corvette, Porsche Cayman, Boxster or Carrera, Ferrari, Lambo, Bugati, on & on? Oh you can't compare those cars to a stang? There's is always a pecking order. So when toyota comes out with new Supra, then what?
But for the money, out of the box, the FRS is one sweet car that handles like a Cayman at half the price. And the Cayman will always out handle the Mustang.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by Grateful Dave

A test drive at a dealership? That's barely scratching the surface.
You didn't say we had a money limit on mods

In your quote back. I didn't see you talk of center of gravity and weight distribution.
We can throw money at any car and make it go better but starting with lower center of gravity, lighter weight (I forgot to mention that part. oops) and a better balanced weight distribution will always be a better handling car.

So how do you compare the Stang to the Corvette, Porsche Cayman, Boxster or Carrera, Ferrari, Lambo, Bugati, on & on? Oh you can't compare those cars to a stang? There's is always a pecking order. So when toyota comes out with new Supra, then what?
But for the money, out of the box, the FRS is one sweet car that handles like a Cayman at half the price. And the Cayman will always out handle the Mustang.

Whatever bro, the FRS is sliced bread. You enjoy your car and have fun speeding down your mountain side; try not to die.

[SVTSHC]

Originally Posted by detainu

If these guys are faithful and true mustang fans, why are they on a FRS/BRZ site? Once again, trying to convince us or themselves. We are not on a mustang site for a reason.

Why is it anyone that defends a car other than the FRS should not be welcome on this forum? Or better yet why can't someone appreciate multiple cars?

[86'd]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

And for the love of God ONE DAY I'LL BE ABLE TO LOOK AT A THREAD LIKE THIS AND DECIDE TO NOT JOIN THE ARGUMENT , but I can't stand when the occasional person finally gets the opportunity to drive or own a car they really and truly love then turns around and swears it's the best thing since the light bulb.

The FRS/BRZ is a GREAT car, no one is disputing that. But when you make a comparison to another car based on performance you need to be ready to hear the grim truth that even though they're priced similarly these cars are in TOTALLY different leagues. While the GT is fighting M3's the FRS/BRZ are going to battle with Miata's. And truthfully what the hell kind of mountain road driving are you legally doing that won't eventually get you killed that would put these two cars into a legitimate comparitive scope? Last time I checked racing down a mountain is something that shouldn't ever be done by anyone not on a closed course that isn't a professional. The fact that you bought this for your daily commute and believe that during that daily commute this thing outperforms a stang GT either tells me you're driving like you've got applejacks for brains or you're benchracing scenarios that you'll never take part in.

If I quoted people for sigs, I'd ask for your permission on this one.

[SnapOv3st3r]

Originally Posted by SVTSHC

I HAVE drove the FRS AND the BRZ and YOU were the one that said "when TRD makes a supercharger." Now all of a sudden you want to flip the script when I mention coilovers/bushings (which would still cost less than a TRD supercharger by a couple grand) and call it a building war? You mentioned a mod that would close the gap, I mentioned one that would extend it or are we not allowed to go one for one.

And while you add more horsepower and your mpg suffers the GT with a few suspension modifcations makes a LARGE jump as well and keeps the same fuel mileage. A very twisty mountain road won't be enough to close the gap. Maybe if you want you can set a few hairpins 5 feet apart all the way down the mountain, then you'll be able to say they'll stand on equal footing where anything more than a lawnmower engine can be comparable.


p.s. To be fair the TRD supercharger isn't even released yet, we've no idea the sort of power gains it'll offer given the cars compression ratio. That it's direct injected we know they can't drop the compression too low without negating the benefits of direct injection.
I hate using the term "a buddy of mine" cause it always sounds like I'm bullshitting but the college I went to had a very VERY large automotive program and being a 4 year graduate most of us were pretty close and that's quite a few cars most of us had back then or own now. But either way, a buddy of mine with a '12 5.0 on adjustables (I couldn't tell you the brand off the top of my head I'd have to ask him) DD's and tracks his car about a dozen times a year. It's lightly modded nothing serious, magnaflow, 302 intake manifold, and adjustable coilovers (he hasn't gotten himself ura bushings yet but apparently that's next on the bucket list), swears the car handles like it's on rails (take that with a grain of salt; but I can't see why it wouldn't be true). Corners pretty close to flat; I don't dispute that but I've never driven it myself. Now seeing as I've never driven his car I guess you can call it benchracing but that's WHY I mentioned the coilovers and bushings; the dudes on the stang forums swear after an inch drop and some suspension tuning the car goes from great to phenomenal. *shrug* like I said I don't own either car; I don't plan on making my BRZ or FRS decision until next year but I've driven both in stock form. My only impressions are you don't get anywhere close to the driving feel you get in the twins from the 5.0 but you don't get anywhere close to the grip and outright pull you get in the 5.0 from the twins (they were test drives, there's only so much you can do). SO OP go with what you like bro, drive both and make your decision they're both great cars and one hell of a value buy.

:facepalm:

[camper]

I own a 2013 V6 with Perf Pkg and 6 speed manual and no other options. This car stays in the garage and is driven 'when I feel like it'. It is very fast - enough so that it will scare most sane people. Perspective is perhaps a good word for this thread. The Toyobaru is a fantastic idea and I am looking forward to driving one soon! It looks like a great value for the $ just like the Mustang is. But these cars have very different missions. Toyota and Subaru were able to take each of their respective strengths and bring to market an amazing vehicle for the price. And so did Ford with the V6 and Perf Pkg. But the Ford has been trying to please millions of customers for almost 50 years with the Mustang which has impacted its mission. Some customers just wanted to cruise and look good while other customers wanted to race and still other customers liked to 'drop the clutch on 500 hp modded stangs' without it breaking every 10 minutes. So the Mustang has met all of those needs and more and to some it will seem like a compromise. Not So! I will date myself here but my best friend had a 1974 Z28 Camaro with an LT1 Solid Lifter Cam and a 4 speed. This car was violent in every gear and it got 12 mpg. The 1/4 mile time was about 13.8 seconds with street tires. Likewise the V6 (with the Perf. Pkgs 3.31 limited slip) will do 13.8 but it gets 30 mpg, is quiet (relatively speaking) and caries a warranty besides looking like sex on wheels in red. So for those that feel they have to bash one to make themselves feel good about the other - please - spare us all the song and dance! For everyone else that can appreciate that both of these vehicles are amazing - especially when you look at where we came from just a few years ago - to you I say ENJOY - whatever you decide to own - either way you will be amazed just like I am !!!