Custom trailer to carry 100 gal of E85 to track

[dp1]

Originally Posted by Azzudien

If you want to do this safely, and legally in New York. Towing a tank with your car is out of the question. Your best option is buy/rent a trailer for your car and a separate 110 gal approved tank. You can get a mounted safety tank that meets all road requirements.
Rent a 1 ton pick up for the 3 track days, put the tank, spare tires etc in the pick up bed. Tow your car on the trailer.

The expense would not be that much greater than trying to build a tank on trailer

Just checked pricing also:
Uhaul is $74.90 per day for truck with car trailer and $.59 per mile.
Depending on distance to track your looking at $250-$500 for the truck and trailer each time you go to track. Buying a pallet mount tank would just be a one time charge.

Full size trailer is not an option, either:
- small size trailer pulled by frs with fuel for 2 track days, or
- no trailer and buy 93/100 fuel at track.

Performance gain with E85 is much higher than with 100, also at 1/4 cost. If it turns out some of this is illegal or too risky (i.e., significantly more than using truck to tow car and wheels and fuel on a trailer), then I would not pursue.

What is illegal?
- selling or renting or buying or installing or using a trailer hitch for a twin
- towing with a twin
- towing a DOT certified trailer with cargo that's ~1/3 gross weight
- towing a low/wide/baffled DOT certified gasoline tank securely mounted on trailer
- towing fuel in such tank on such trailer using such hitch
- anything else?

I am most interested in specific knowledge and experiences, especially from people who use a small trailer with a twin and even more so if they transport fuel, ideally in a similar way as how I'm looking to transport.

I understand that this is uncommon

[dp1]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Here's the scene I see in my head:

-A HF trailer, with plenty of capacity, but a loading deck on the high side for the trailer's track width.

-700lbs of liquid in a rectangular cube container perched on top of that high loading deck. Probably taller than it is wide or long. Figure another 150-200 lbs for just the trailer frame.

-I would say the first highway off-ramp, but plenty of twisty roads around WGI, you're going to turn the wheel faster than you should, either because you forgot it's back there, dodging suicidal wildlife, getting too comfy with it back there. Doesn't matter. It doesn't need to be your fault.

-And when that happens, I can only see the top-heavy tank momentum rolling the trailer over and making your car do its impression of an alligator "death roll." Only you'll be in the teeth of the alligator, and you have a month's worth of flammable liquid 10 feet behind your head.

-You'll be fortunate if it happens on an off ramp and you only roll through a drainage culvert. Less so if you're in the twistys with lots of trees to hit.

If you're gonna do it, make sure that trailer is low, wide, and short. And make sure the tank stays low, wide and short as well. I think you'll find that by the time you're done staring down the cost barrel of lots of custom fab instead of light mods on off-the-shelf trailers, that you'll be more interested in buying fuel at the track.

Plenty of horrid scenarios to explore, most appear similar for any towing arrangement, still more interested in exploring how to best go about this if I do it.
Cost is not the key but at 20-30 gal/day, $8 cost difference per gallon, 20 track days in a season...$3,200-$4,800 extra per season if I buy (100 oct - less potent than E85) fuel at the track. Subtract one-time cost for the rig...

Appreciate your points of view

[TrqlessWonder]

Originally Posted by dp1

Full size trailer is not an option, either:
- small size trailer pulled by frs with fuel for 2 track days, or
- no trailer and buy 93/100 fuel at track.

Performance gain with E85 is much higher than with 100, also at 1/4 cost. If it turns out some of this is illegal or too risky (i.e., significantly more than using truck to tow car and wheels and fuel on a trailer), then I would not pursue.

What is illegal?
- selling or renting or buying or installing or using a trailer hitch for a twin
- towing with a twin
- towing a DOT certified trailer with cargo that's ~1/3 gross weight
- towing a low/wide/baffled DOT certified gasoline tank securely mounted on trailer
- towing fuel in such tank on such trailer using such hitch
- anything else?

I am most interested in specific knowledge and experiences, especially from people who use a small trailer with a twin and even more so if they transport fuel, ideally in a similar way as how I'm looking to transport.

I understand that this is uncommon

Huh? Pretty sure none of that is illegal, and there are actual hitches you can buy and have your local U-haul install. But, you do know that legal doesn't automatically mean smart, right? Which is what most of us are saying.

And when I say short/low/wide for the trailer, it's because of physics. Make it as difficult as possible to roll it. Seriously. Like mounting the tank such that its centerline is lower than the axle centerline.

This feels like one of those times where an OP was just hoping we'd all give the go-ahead on the inadvisable thing you already decided to do.

As for small trailer experience, I hauled my tires and tools around that way for two seasons behind the civic. Probably 6-8k miles of towing. Tongue weight isn't as easy to choose as you might think. I finally wised up and put a pair of spring rubbers in the rear coils to keep the car off the rear bumpstops. HF stuff is cheap for a reason. Any small light trailer isn't going to be all sophisticated. Leaf springs, no shocks, no brakes. No real thought put into it. Regular highways were enough to break off both fenders. The trailer bounced a fair amount while fully loaded down. It bounced up trunk-high when it was empty (fender #1). That was fun to see in the mirror. And backing up with a short trailer (that you really can't see) and needing to be any sort of precise will try your patience.

I, too, thought trailering things became a one-time expense to make my life easier. And then I had to get it registered every year. Which means I had to get it inspected every year. Which means I had to fix something every year. Or, when the parts aren't available, have something fabricated. Which means it wasn't a one-time expense.

I've switched back to transporting my wheels/tires in the back seat.

Out of curiosity, how much would the trailer have to cost for it to be more than you want to spend?

[dp1]

Originally Posted by TrqlessWonder

Huh? Pretty sure none of that is illegal, and there are actual hitches you can buy and have your local U-haul install. But, you do know that legal doesn't automatically mean smart, right? Which is what most of us are saying.

And when I say short/low/wide for the trailer, it's because of physics. Make it as difficult as possible to roll it. Seriously. Like mounting the tank such that its centerline is lower than the axle centerline.

This feels like one of those times where an OP was just hoping we'd all give the go-ahead on the inadvisable thing you already decided to do.

As for small trailer experience, I hauled my tires and tools around that way for two seasons behind the civic. Probably 6-8k miles of towing. Tongue weight isn't as easy to choose as you might think. I finally wised up and put a pair of spring rubbers in the rear coils to keep the car off the rear bumpstops. HF stuff is cheap for a reason. Any small light trailer isn't going to be all sophisticated. Leaf springs, no shocks, no brakes. No real thought put into it. Regular highways were enough to break off both fenders. The trailer bounced a fair amount while fully loaded down. It bounced up trunk-high when it was empty (fender #1). That was fun to see in the mirror. And backing up with a short trailer (that you really can't see) and needing to be any sort of precise will try your patience.

I, too, thought trailering things became a one-time expense to make my life easier. And then I had to get it registered every year. Which means I had to get it inspected every year. Which means I had to fix something every year. Or, when the parts aren't available, have something fabricated. Which means it wasn't a one-time expense.

I've switched back to transporting my wheels/tires in the back seat.

Out of curiosity, how much would the trailer have to cost for it to be more than you want to spend?

This is great - I like your post because you are speaking from experience with a small trailer.

In the previous post I saw "illegal" so I asked for specifics.

My shop can build or modify to desired spec, not looking at HF, but base has to be good, if that exists. We just started talking about all of this to see if there is a good option that makes sense. If all small DOT-blessed trailers are all crappy and can't be sufficiently improved, then that option dies. Having something custom built with quality and safety in mind for <$3k would be well worth it to me.
Glad you pointed out shocks and brakes, will ask about that.

Next frontier for me is to find people who frequent similar tracks and use E85 to find out how they solved the supply problem. Maybe few people with trailers could bring enough fuel for me at a profit that works for everyone.

I would prefer not having to trailer and getting E85 delivered on track, or to have an exceptionally well-built and safest possible small trailer, or to buy 93/100 oct at the track, in that order.

Much appreciate all feedback

[cjd]

I don't remember what you put forth as the reasons for not towing the car, but... would you be able to own a car trailer (with tank) and rent a truck to haul it? Obviously it will cost more up front, but would be SO much safer - not to mention giving you a way home just in case... With that many track days, that would be moving up my list of considerations very quickly.

[jjaisli]

Danko, I only just saw this thread today. Working in the logistics field and being 49.CFR certified, I should know if this is fully DOT legal, and I think it is for private use, but I'm not 100% sure. Let me make a few calls to double check. I'm dealing mostly in commercial transport so this is something a bit out of my scope. I may need a little time--just super busy.

That said, legal or not, I kind of agree with the sentiment and really don't think this is sound idea. Carrying 2-3, 5-gallon plastic tanks is one thing but 50+ gallons on an open 2 axle pull trailer is a questionable prospect. I wouldn't be thrilled about pulling that much fuel on my full sized trailer.

For the record, I never considered e85 for my FRS because it's nearly impossible to find here in Jersey. You could really save yourself a LOT of trouble and hassle if you keep it on normal pump fuel. Just saying.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by cjd

I don't remember what you put forth as the reasons for not towing the car, but... would you be able to own a car trailer (with tank) and rent a truck to haul it? Obviously it will cost more up front, but would be SO much safer - not to mention giving you a way home just in case... With that many track days, that would be moving up my list of considerations very quickly.

Appreciate the suggestion. I currently don't have room or alternative location to store full size trailer or time to deal with renting a tow vehicle for every track event. Don't mind paying to have car towed back from track if it breaks down.

Now focused on finding a way to have enough E85 brought to tracks when I'm there, rather than towing it.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by jjaisli

Danko, I only just saw this thread today. Working in the logistics field and being 49.CFR certified, I should know if this is fully DOT legal, and I think it is for private use, but I'm not 100% sure. Let me make a few calls to double check. I'm dealing mostly in commercial transport so this is something a bit out of my scope. I may need a little time--just super busy.

That said, legal or not, I kind of agree with the sentiment and really don't think this is sound idea. Carrying 2-3, 5-gallon plastic tanks is one thing but 50+ gallons on an open 2 axle pull trailer is a questionable prospect. I wouldn't be thrilled about pulling that much fuel on my full sized trailer.

For the record, I never considered e85 for my FRS because it's nearly impossible to find here in Jersey. You could really save yourself a LOT of trouble and hassle if you keep it on normal pump fuel. Just saying.

Hey bud, I thoroughly enjoy 300whp on 93oct. Many good people here made good arguments for safety, very thankful for that. I'm getting the flex fuel kit anyway since E85 is just a 5 min drive from my place. If I can't get E85 to tracks safely, and nobody to get it there for me, so be it

Spring is just around the corner...

[Stang70Fastback]

Are there a lot of laws surrounding making your own fuel tank? Everyone keeps talking about center of gravity and such. Why not make your own tank that's the full width and length of the trailer? That way it could be a big tank, but only a few inches thick, with a very low center of gravity. Plus you can make the top of the tank your new trailer floor and still mount things on top if needed. Trailer can be tilted back slightly to drain fuel.

#thinkingoutloud #dunnoifthatmakesanysense

[ka-t_240]

Being the BRZ does not have a way to make a functional hitch(with out modifying the body), I would not even consider this. The hitches that mount to your tow hook mounts, I would not trust with 800lbs/more? of weight with the fuel trailer, etc on it.

[ka-t_240]

There comes a time when your race car need to be towed to the track. Not only for things like this, but for when there is a mechanical, blow out a tire, hit something, etc. I played the drive the car to the track game for 7 or 8 years. Bought a trailer this spring and was the best thing I have done. Granted, I ussually have to tow 8-9hrs one way. I would think the time where you need to tow 100+ gallons of fuel, is that time where the sacrifices need to be made and start towing the car itself to the track.

We haul fuel in VP cans and 55 gallon vp drums as we blend our own E85 from E100 from the plant.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

Are there a lot of laws surrounding making your own fuel tank? Everyone keeps talking about center of gravity and such. Why not make your own tank that's the full width and length of the trailer? That way it could be a big tank, but only a few inches thick, with a very low center of gravity. Plus you can make the top of the tank your new trailer floor and still mount things on top if needed. Trailer can be tilted back slightly to drain fuel.

#thinkingoutloud #dunnoifthatmakesanysense

Likely cost prohibitive to obtain DOT and other required licenses for custom tank. Likely wouldn't carry anything but the tank on the trailer to minimize weight. Thanks

[jjaisli]

Originally Posted by dp1

Hey bud, I thoroughly enjoy 300whp on 93oct. Many good people here made good arguments for safety, very thankful for that. I'm getting the flex fuel kit anyway since E85 is just a 5 min drive from my place. If I can't get E85 to tracks safely, and nobody to get it there for me, so be it

Spring is just around the corner...

OK, just double checked and I can't find anything to indicate that you'd run into any legal issues. As long as it's for private use, for your own consumption, you can bring up to 400.-kgs (net) of liquid fuel so long as it's in a DOT approved container or containers.

That said, just let me have your schedule and route so that if we're going to the same event, I can make sure I'm on the road ahead of you.

[dp1]

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

There comes a time when your race car need to be towed to the track. Not only for things like this, but for when there is a mechanical, blow out a tire, hit something, etc. I played the drive the car to the track game for 7 or 8 years. Bought a trailer this spring and was the best thing I have done. Granted, I ussually have to tow 8-9hrs one way. I would think the time where you need to tow 100+ gallons of fuel, is that time where the sacrifices need to be made and start towing the car itself to the track.

We haul fuel in VP cans and 55 gallon vp drums as we blend our own E85 from E100 from the plant.

Yeah, there comes a time
No room to store truck or trailer, or desire to add SUV or truck to the fleet.
Now looking for a way to have E85 delivered to tracks.
How do you get 55 gal drums to tracks? Please PM me if you prefer, thanks