Am I the only one who thinks a swapped 86 is no longer an 86?

[gramicci101]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

But what would a twin be with a Honda J-series in it? That's what's really important here.

A waste of time and money.

[gramicci101]

Originally Posted by KR-S 86

A waste of time and money.

But with a tune it can make almost 300 hp though. And it works in a Miata.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

But with a tune it can make almost 300 hp though. And it works in a Miata.

Oh, wow. Never mind supercharging my FR-S to make about the power for less or LS swapping for about the same, then.

BRB, going to ask people on the internet how to fit one in an FR-S.

[EAGLE5]

For me, if you keep the frame and most of the body, it's still an FR-S. If you tube frame and put lookalike panels over it, I don't think it's an FR-S anymore, even if it has an FA20 inside. An Exocet is not a Miata, but it does use a lot of Miata parts. A Bradley GT is not a VW Bug. It's Bug-based.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

For me, if you keep the frame and most of the body, it's still an FR-S. If you tube frame and put lookalike panels over it, I don't think it's an FR-S anymore, even if it has an FA20 inside. An Exocet is not a Miata, but it does use a lot of Miata parts. A Bradley GT is not a VW Bug. It's Bug-based.

So I could drop a V12 in there and replace all the suspension with stuff from other cars I can claim that my FRS is the fastest one in the world?
I am no purest but the body shell is the last thing that makes a car a car. It is just what makes it look like an FRS.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Must be the difference between those that take their cars to the track on Saturday vs those that get coffee.

Oooo, ouch!

Actually your argument immediately made perfect sense but Hitler memes always win.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

So I could drop a V12 in there and replace all the suspension with stuff from other cars I can claim that my FRS is the fastest one in the world?

Only if it's fast.

[KR-S]

Originally Posted by jsimon7777

For me, if you keep the frame and most of the body, it's still an FR-S. If you tube frame and put lookalike panels over it, I don't think it's an FR-S anymore, even if it has an FA20 inside. An Exocet is not a Miata, but it does use a lot of Miata parts. A Bradley GT is not a VW Bug. It's Bug-based.

I agree. So as long as the body of the FR-S is retained, I think it's fair to say that it's still an FR-S.

These are not 86s:

[guybo]

Originally Posted by gramicci101

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ship_of_Theseus

OK, seance time- let's get Heraclitus to chime in on this one.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by guybo

OK, seance time- let's get Heraclitus to chime in on this one.

*giggle* Heraclitus

[Tokay444]

If you put an RB26 in Mustang GT 5.0, do you still call it a 5 litre?
If you remove the item it takes its namesake from, the namesake is removed.
It can still be an FR-S or a BRZ, since those names have nothing to do with the 86mm bore and 86mm stroke, but it can no longer be an, "86".

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by guybo

I don't know- I guess if you put a big V8 with a high COG you totally change the nature of the car, but say you stick a N/A Subaru boxer 6 in there (if you could- just for sake of argument) and the COG is still very low and you still have a boxer. I think that'd be close enough. The nature of the car remains the same at least.

V8s have a very low center of gravity, particularly cam-in-block OHV V8s. A Corvette's 17.5" center of gravity is lower than the flat-4 FT86's 18", and much lower than that of a flat-6 Porsche 911's (19").

Flat-engine architecture giving a lower c.g. is IMO kind of a myth. A lot of the c.g. height advantage is lost because you have to situate the crank centerline higher in order to have clearance for exhaust headers. This means the crank itself, flywheel, and transmission are situated higher than they would be with a V or inline engine. This is apparent in a cutaway view of the FT86


Also apparent is how far forward the flat engine has to be situated to clear the steering shaft.

Flat-4 FR also precludes use of double-wishbones for suspension, so the promise of a low hoodline is somewhat killed by strut suspension in addition to the engine being mounted somewhat high and forward.

IMO, a V4 would be the ideal powerplant for an FT86 or MX-5 class sports/sporty car.

[gramicci101]

If you get a heart transplant are you still the same person afterwards? What about lungs, liver, kidney, cornea, joint replacements, artificial limbs, etc...? At what point are you no longer you?