Need advice - major problems with Hotchkis kit

[GSX-R35]

Hello all. I'm having issues with the suspension on my 2013 FR-S and would like to hear some opinions on what to do. It's a bit of a long story so please bear with me.

I've had my FR-S since new and a couple of years ago I decided to have a full Hotchkis suspension kit installed - sway bars, springs, camber plates, strut bar, and front end links - on the advice of a friend who's a Hotchkis development driver. It never gave me issues even with several trackdays and thousands of miles of daily driving until a few months ago when I started hearing this loud squeaking from my front end. Took it to my local Toyota dealer where a friend of mine was a service adviser and they traced it to a seized bearing in the driver side camber plate. The bearing was absolutely seized solid and still sits on my kitchen table now 'cause I couldn't believe how badly seized it was.

I called Hotchkis to try and get a replacement and they told me initially I'd have to buy an entirely new camber plate kit at $454 plus shipping instead of being able to just buy a replacement bearing. Before you ask I didn't bother trying to make a warranty claim because I'd had the part for over 2 years and their warranty has a disclaimer saying they won't warranty a part installed on a vehicle used for "racing-type activities" so I was sure they'd just deny it based on my trackday use. After some whining and begging they finally sold me the bearing and clip I needed for around 70 bucks and the dealer installed it. Noise fixed, car drove fine, but they charged me an arm and a leg on labor despite what my friend tried to do to soften the blow.

Last month my car gets in a sidewipe accident on the front passenger side. My insurance covered it and the car's all repaired except that when they took it in for an alignment before giving it back to me the shop said my front driver side shock mount was loose and it looked like I needed a new camber plate - the same side that had failed once before and just recently got fixed supposedly.

Took it back to the Toyota dealer and they said that yes I needed a new camber plate and no they have no idea how it broke so soon after they "fixed" it...of course. Okay, the impact was on the passenger side so the accident was unlikely to have caused it but hey, can't entirely rule it out so I'll give them the benefit of the doubt - but I certainly didn't want them to assrape me on labor again so I took it to another shop I trust more that confirmed I do need a new camber plate.

Of course Hotchkis says they can't sell me just that one side. Same story as before - $454 for the whole kit. Namedropping my development driver friend hasn't seemed to help and I'm getting the cold shoulder from their sales team.

So, I'm stuck with having to buy that kit to fix my car a second time unless I look at other options. I've got other expenses right now and want to keep the spend to a minimum but at the same time I'm thinking to myself how it makes any sense that I should pay that much for a part that's failed me once already.

Cheapest option is to suck it up and buy the Hotchkis plates again and hope they don't fail again. Since they've failed on me already though someone suggested I just torch the f*cking things and get a full coilover kit. I'd rather not spend the extra money but at the same time I've lost faith in Hotchkis's products and customer service.

Opinions? Any other options I haven't thought of? I'm no suspension expert so I was hoping for some good advice.

Thanks in advance for your help.

[strat61caster]

You mean these guys?

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/2013...from-hotchkis/

Mated to these springs?

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/hotc...k=&yr=&md=&sm=

The cheapest solution is to put the stock top hats back on, if you still have them. You'll lose some camber but you'll be able to drive your car again. You can get more camber than is streetable with a pair of camber bolts in each hole I believe, maybe not back to the -3 they advertise, but more than -2 or so I've heard.

And you can cruise the classifieds section, here's a set of Velox camber plates going for $300
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108828
Or a whole set of stock suspension for $130, but you'll have to convince him to ship
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110968

[GSX-R35]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

You mean these guys?

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/2013...from-hotchkis/

Mated to these springs?

http://www.hotchkis.net/product/hotc...k=&yr=&md=&sm=

The cheapest solution is to put the stock top hats back on, if you still have them. You'll lose some camber but you'll be able to drive your car again. You can get more camber than is streetable with a pair of camber bolts in each hole I believe, maybe not back to the -3 they advertise, but more than -2 or so I've heard.

And you can cruise the classifieds section, here's a set of Velox camber plates going for $300
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=108828
Or a whole set of stock suspension for $130, but you'll have to convince him to ship
http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=110968

Yeah, those are the Hotchkis parts I have. I do still have my stock hats but I'd rather not go back to stock after going aftermarket since that seems like going backwards. I'll have to check out that classified link you posted for those camber plates. Thanks for posting that. I guess I should clarify about how much I'm willing to spend - I can afford the $500ish bucks for the Hotchkis camber plates shipped without too much trouble, I'm just reluctant to spend it on a part that's failed me once already for no apparent reason. If push comes to shove I'm willing to spring for a decent basic coilover setup like a set of Tein Flex Zs if that seems like the better option over getting yet another set of Hotchkis camber plates.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by GSX-R35

but I'd rather not go back to stock after going aftermarket since that seems like going backwards.

Driveable car > undriveable car

Many people make camber plates within your budget, but be careful you get one compatible with OE dampers/springs. It looks like the Velox ones I linked utilize the OE spring perch and may be compatible, however I do not have any experience with them so you'll have to research their reviews.

[ryoma]

put your stock tophats back on and enjoy your car. unless you're going for major camber and poke style, there really is no need for top hats on lowering springs. if you want camber, camber bolts do the job perfectly fine and they are way cheaper ($30ish vs $400+)

[turtlefeeder]

Hmm that is a long story lol 😂

But really, if they've failed you twice already and demand you buy a set instead of the particular part you need to replace maybe it's time to try out something else? I mean imagine if it happens a third time (for your sake let's hope it doesn't if you choose to buy again) that's a new set of coilover right there not to mention that arm and leg worth of labor you mentioned. flex Z is just about 200 more from your price range but it gives you a peace of mind knowing you got them brand new. Just remember if it keeps breaking you need to try something else 👍

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ryoma

there really is no need for top hats on lowering springs

Except when you're at the track/autox, like the OP is doing, appropriate camber greatly increases available grip and tire life.

In my experience the car likes to be at -3 degrees or more.

A fixed camber plate may be a nice compromise since OP isn't going too hardcore, with camber bolts it should be close to enough, and won't break the bank.
http://www.ft86speedfactory.com/whit...l#.WCVnjvkrKUk

[Gunman]

Have you talked to Aaron, in the design department? @Hotchkis

I've spoken with John Hotchkis many times, and he seems like a good guy, I would hope his company is too. If it is a product problem, I'd expect them to stand behind it, or at least have an interest in seeing what happened.

[renfield90]

Yeah, Hotchkis was particularly unhelpful when I broke one of their adjustable endlinks (my fault). Didn't want to sell me what I needed, which was just a single endlink - it was buy a whole new pair or nothing.

They also flat out didn't return my email when I snapped one of their sway bar brackets and wanted to see if I could get just one bracket to fix it. Again, not trying to make a warranty claim, just trying to exchange money for parts I need.

There are lots of other good options for camber plates that you should explore. You don't need to stay with Hotchkis. Racecomp is a good company that stands behind its products and supports its racers. I'm running these and they've done well for me so far: http://www.racecompengineering.com/i....html?___SID=U

[GSX-R35]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Driveable car > undriveable car

Many people make camber plates within your budget, but be careful you get one compatible with OE dampers/springs. It looks like the Velox ones I linked utilize the OE spring perch and may be compatible, however I do not have any experience with them so you'll have to research their reviews.

Originally Posted by ryoma

put your stock tophats back on and enjoy your car. unless you're going for major camber and poke style, there really is no need for top hats on lowering springs. if you want camber, camber bolts do the job perfectly fine and they are way cheaper ($30ish vs $400+)

Originally Posted by turtlefeeder

Hmm that is a long story lol 😂

But really, if they've failed you twice already and demand you buy a set instead of the particular part you need to replace maybe it's time to try out something else? I mean imagine if it happens a third time (for your sake let's hope it doesn't if you choose to buy again) that's a new set of coilover right there not to mention that arm and leg worth of labor you mentioned. flex Z is just about 200 more from your price range but it gives you a peace of mind knowing you got them brand new. Just remember if it keeps breaking you need to try something else 👍

Buying another set of Hotchkis plates is definitely not my favored plan after they failed me once already. I've been doing some research and talking to people based on your guys' suggestions and right now I think I've boiled it down to two options: 1) RaceComp camber plates that give about the same camber and caster as the Hotchkis ones and look well-engineered for slightly less money or 2) buy a set of coilovers and save on labor by installing it myself with the help of a friend who's offered to help me. I'm going to think over it on the weekend. Thanks for the advice and replies.

[GSX-R35]

Originally Posted by Gunman

Have you talked to Aaron, in the design department? @Hotchkis

I've spoken with John Hotchkis many times, and he seems like a good guy, I would hope his company is too. If it is a product problem, I'd expect them to stand behind it, or at least have an interest in seeing what happened.

Originally Posted by renfield90

Yeah, Hotchkis was particularly unhelpful when I broke one of their adjustable endlinks (my fault). Didn't want to sell me what I needed, which was just a single endlink - it was buy a whole new pair or nothing.

They also flat out didn't return my email when I snapped one of their sway bar brackets and wanted to see if I could get just one bracket to fix it. Again, not trying to make a warranty claim, just trying to exchange money for parts I need.

There are lots of other good options for camber plates that you should explore. You don't need to stay with Hotchkis. Racecomp is a good company that stands behind its products and supports its racers. I'm running these and they've done well for me so far: http://www.racecompengineering.com/i....html?___SID=U

My friend who's a development driver for Hotchkis told me he talked to John Hotchkis himself a month ago after I had a hard time convincing their sales department to sell me a replacement bearing and he said John said that's not how he wants his company to operate and I should have been able to buy the parts I needed from them without a problem. My friend suggested I talk to Drew, the head of sales and mention that. I called and asked for Drew and they told me he was in a meeting. I left him a message and have yet to get a call back. I've given up on Hotchkis at this point. Maybe their head cheese is a good guy but I'm not impressed with his staff at all or their products.

If I go with another set of camber plates I'll be getting the RaceComp ones but I may go with a cheapish but decent set of coilovers as an alternative. One of the forum sponsors I talked to is offering me a good deal so I may take them up on the offer since a friend of mine has offered to help me install them. Thanks for your input.

[Gunman]

@GSX-R35 Check your pm's, I gave you some good contact info.

Also sent John a message, gave him a heads up that you'd be contacting him.

[Cole]

For what it's worth, I have SilverProject top hats on stock struts and I'm pretty happy with them. They aren't the prettiest or the most feature packed, but they offer a good amount of camber and are cheap. The only bad thing I've heard about the company as a whole is that they cheap out on bearings. I think my bearings are starting to go, but my car has been through a winter now with them on now, so I was expecting this to happen sooner or later.

I'm assuming bearings can't be that expensive, right?

[GSX-R35]

Originally Posted by Gunman

@GSX-R35 Check your pm's, I gave you some good contact info.

Also sent John a message, gave him a heads up that you'd be contacting him.

Thanks for the attempt to help me out with Hotchkis but I ended up deciding to just get a new set of coilovers. I was offered a hefty discount on a brand new set and a friend offered to help me install them so I figured that was the way to go since. Appreciate your efforts though.

Originally Posted by Cole

For what it's worth, I have SilverProject top hats on stock struts and I'm pretty happy with them. They aren't the prettiest or the most feature packed, but they offer a good amount of camber and are cheap. The only bad thing I've heard about the company as a whole is that they cheap out on bearings. I think my bearings are starting to go, but my car has been through a winter now with them on now, so I was expecting this to happen sooner or later.

I'm assuming bearings can't be that expensive, right?

After Hotchkis finally relented after much whining from me and let me buy a new bearing for my kit from them it cost about 60 bucks with shipping. It's installing the new bearing that cost a shitton of money with the shop I (foolishly) used lol.