...another... Throttle Body Thread

[Lantana frs]

Anyone remember the dsport intake test? They never showed an overlay of the tuned stock vs tuned for intake. Peak gains were small unless you compared to stock untuned. So it goes with alot of the aftermarket bullshit.

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

He's not using the factory intake manifold.

His throttle body is feeding the intake elbow of the Sprintex 335 Supercharger.

How about on the NA car?

[Spartarus]

1

Originally Posted by Hawk77FT

How about on the NA car?

Honestly, no tricks, matched AFR's and timing...

Zip. Zero. Nada.

Its just not a restriction for NA. The engine in NA form can't ingest enough air to choke on the stock throttle body with the stock cams.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

You can't compare tuned vs untuned.

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

Good points but when I see that a car has been tuned I have to wonder how much of the gain is attributable to the component being tested.

Originally Posted by Irace86

I don't think the stock throttle body is a restriction unless he is pushing huge numbers. Do a google search for what people are making in terms of power and what type of numbers they are running at the drag strip or in competition, and you will likely find some pretty high hp cars running 65mm throttle bodies without issues. 2jzgte stock TB is 65mm ID, and Supras/cars with single turbo 2jz's are pushing huge numbers without aftermarket intake mani/TB combos.

Maybe the point of restriction is in the air flow path of the top mount blowers. Maybe that is why the Edelbrock, Harrop and Cosworth units put the manifold on top.

Originally Posted by Kodename47

Probably because no one will fork out large amounts of money and then post up that it made no difference and not many people will pay to do something that they don't expect to work

Originally Posted by Lantana frs

Anyone remember the dsport intake test? They never showed an overlay of the tuned stock vs tuned for intake. Peak gains were small unless you compared to stock untuned. So it goes with alot of the aftermarket bullshit.

Originally Posted by Spartarus

1

Honestly, no tricks, matched AFR's and timing...

Zip. Zero. Nada.

Its just not a restriction for NA. The engine in NA form can't ingest enough air to choke on the stock throttle body with the stock cams.

It is true that not many have changed the throttle body, but the few who did it they said there were noticeable gains. I believe a tune is necessary to get most of it, because you change something after the MAF reading. So, you need at least to reprogram the MAF and for something more extreme also the red line. If someone changes the AFRs and the timing, then I agree that the gains cannot be attributed to the bigger throttle body.

Additionally, noone said that we have a restriction with the stock throttle body. This not how things work. You're just trying to push more air and if you manage it, then the engine will compensate and will add more fuel. This is how FI works and this is a way to done it if you want to stay NA. If the throttle body wasn't that important in the overal air flow channel, please explain to me why Subaru is using a tapered design? OEM specifications is 71mm in the inflow side and 65mm in the outflow side. I suppose that you understand of what is happening with the air flow when you have a tapered design.

[Kodename47]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

It is true that not many have changed the throttle body, but the few who did it they said there were noticeable gains. I believe a tune is necessary to get most of it, because you change something after the MAF reading. So, you need at least to reprogram the MAF and for something more extreme also the red line. If someone changes the AFRs and the timing, then I agree that the gains cannot be attributed to the bigger throttle body.

Additionally, noone said that we have a restriction with the stock throttle body. This not how things work. You're just trying to push more air and if you manage it, then the engine will compensate and will add more fuel. This is how FI works and this is a way to done it if you want to stay NA. If the throttle body wasn't that important in the overal air flow channel, please explain to me why Subaru is using a tapered design? OEM specifications is 71mm in the inflow side and 65mm in the outflow side. I suppose that you understand of what is happening with the air flow when you have a tapered design.

A bigger TB will increase response if the angle mapping isn't changed. You would definitely feel an "improvement" but then this is no different to the throttle mapping gizmos or just remapping the throttle. You're not adding power but just merely increasing the airflow per degree of accelerator pedal movement.

NA you will not be pushing more air in. The engine works as an air pump drawing the air through the TB, hence the wording of a restriction. The reason it is tapered is to increase air velocity so it carries that through the manifold and ports. If the TB is too large you can actually reduce velocity and less air arrives in the cylinder before the valves close. You really should be looking at pressure changes either side of the throttle plate. If there are none then there will be no performance increase of a larger opening.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by Kodename47

A bigger TB will increase response if the angle mapping isn't changed. You would definitely feel an "improvement" but then this is no different to the throttle mapping gizmos or just remapping the throttle. You're not adding power but just merely increasing the airflow per degree of accelerator pedal movement.

Aww man the damn thank button went away... I only pressed it once!

...And that's why I don't have a dial-up throttle anymore.

[DIE1000DEATHS]

Originally Posted by Irace86

Are you maxed out on pulley size? Meaning, couldn't you just buy a smaller pulley? Wouldn't that be the cheapest route?

I will be shortly...

[DIE1000DEATHS]

Much appreciation to you sir for reading my posts and the effort in yours!

That Grams must've just hit the market. I did a bit of searching before making this thread.

The car won't get driven in the shitty Michigan winter, so I'll likely get the Grams and will try to do a proper write-up with dyno comparison.

Originally Posted by Spartarus

For those who TLR, OP is using a Sprintex 335 supercharger. The big one. On a built engine.



The 335 hits a ceiling long before you max out the blower.

There's a point of diminishing returns with smaller pulleys that shouldn't be there.

Somewhere in the system there's a significant restriction.

The popular speculation points to the throttle body.

Other speculation points to the Laminova intercoooler core.



But he's on a Sprintex 335, it doesn't use the stock intake manifold. The Sprintex manifold has its own runners of different length and diameter than stock.



Sure you can, you've just got to leave ignition timing alone. If you only correct the tuning to match AFR's between the 2 setups, that's exactly how you correctly compare.

I would try the Grams one from SpeedFactory if I were OP.

[johan]

Just as a matter of my own experience in the past... Grams/Skunk2/Kraftwerks (all same company, same manufacturing - Group A Autosports).... their DBW throttle bodies have a long, consistent history of sticking closed and being very unreliable. --- maybe --- they've made progress there and it's not an issue anymore -- but I would proceed with caution.

I would highly recommend exploring OEM Subaru/Toyota/Honda options - that's why I did that Honda test last year. There are a large number of OEM keihin manufactured TB's out there from Honda V6s that could be made to work with a little effort. There is supposedly even one giant Lexus TB that is plug and play...

[Turdinator]

OP, if you are still look at options TODA make a nice looking one. I have no personal experience with it but the TODA parts I have used on past cars have been quality items.

http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...-throttle.html

[Hawk77FT]

Originally Posted by Turdinator

OP, if you are still look at options TODA make a nice looking one. I have no personal experience with it but the TODA parts I have used on past cars have been quality items.

http://www.toda-racing.co.jp/en/prod...-throttle.html

Might as well bore the stock TB for quarter of the price. I have done mine up to 68-69 with no problems.

[justinh77]

Originally Posted by DIE1000DEATHS

Much appreciation to you sir for reading my posts and the effort in yours!

That Grams must've just hit the market. I did a bit of searching before making this thread.

The car won't get driven in the shitty Michigan winter, so I'll likely get the Grams and will try to do a proper write-up with dyno comparison.

i look forward to your write up and dyno charts on the grams im considering it myself as well

[Teseo]

Or this is enough?

[quinceyc]

Originally Posted by Teseo

Or this is enough?

Is this TMG custom made one off intake??