Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[Jason@Nameless]

We are working on the resonator either this evening or tomorrow AM, but in the meantime I have been working with a few engineers in a few other industries who have had good success at using a variety of acoustic and quarter wavelength tuning by using a variety of helmholtz resonators to smooth pulses in gas lines as well as to reduce noise in compressed gas systems (intake tuning on reciprocating compressors, etc). These guys have a ton of real world knowledge and are pretty entertained with the work we're doing here so they're eager to help us out in any way they can facilitate. Obviously our primary goal on this exhaust is to tune out cabin drone. But the reality is that we should be able to use similar concepts to impact the scavenging potential of the exhaust and limit reversion. I'm headed out in a few to pick up a variety of smaller mandrel bent tubing so that we can work within the physical constraints of the car to get the right resonators in place with minimal weight and best fitment under the car.

My overall goal would be to build a system that improves scavenging and reduces drone simultaneously - something we stumbled up on with the Genesis 3.8R axleback exhaust.

Jason

[jedibow]

Jason,

What merge collector are you planing on using in the 4-1 exhaust? I know it is an area where you can pickup a few extra HP with the correct design.

G

[Dimman]

Have we had any news from cam makers?

You could think of 'Staging' header designs to compliment the rpm ranges of different cams.

[Lonewolf]

Originally Posted by Dimman

Have we had any news from cam makers?

You could think of 'Staging' header designs to compliment the rpm ranges of different cams.

I've been holding off on contacting companies like Crane, Comp, and Crower cams for a few reasons:

1) Valve/cam issues some people have experienced
2) Not enough units sold
3) No tuning solution widely available as of yet

***I was thinking about giving all the aforementioned companies a ring in the beginning of July.

[Jason@Nameless]

We have two can manufacturers on the hook begging for a set of heads right now.

And yes we will do headers to match cams/ported head combos.

J

[mike2100]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

So please, by all means, chime in with your applications, your use of the car and the requirements therein so that we can determine how to divide and conquer for different segments of the market.

Realistically I'll probably end up keeping it on the mild/quiet side. But it would be exciting to see you design a no-compromise system...that's daydream material.

[Dimman]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Ok so we just got the car off the dyno this morning (tested the same design as previously tested, but without the midpipe) and the car is making the exact same power as before. I'll have the graphs here shortly to compare. So good news and bad news. Bad news is that the car didn't pick up any extra power over the weekend. Good news is, you don't need a midpipe to make this level of power.

Now, on top of this discussion, we have been working with a number of Australian customers and frequenting their message boards for the GT86 as well as some of the ECU Tuning forums and there have been some rumors of the torque dip being exaggerated on the dyno vs. on the street based on the load that the dyno puts onto the car vs. the load the car sees on the street. If that is the case, then there may be some increase power from ECU learning that doesn't translate to the dyno, but again, that's total speculation and it should be an equal improvement no matter what system you run.

Next steps on this car are to work on some more designs including our intake as well as getting a catless version of this stepped header tested out on the car asap. We have also been discussing some other, rather wild, options for the car that we'll share after we get another look under the car to evaluate the feasibility of the routing for these alternate header designs. We have also investigated the feasibility of getting the maximum amount of power out of the car by having an alternate exhaust length (electric cutout or race day side exit design). The tuned length of the primaries and secondaries on the header as well as the collector diameters are not the only dial to turn in order to bias torque, midrange or high end horsepower. The collector and muffler/tailpipe combo harmonics also have the ability to impact power levels. But we're talking exhausts that are half of the length of the car vs. anything the full length.

More to come.

Jason

I'm not so sure about this. From the Open ECU thread ( http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8691 ) jedibow's logs from highway pulls show a dip in Absolute Load in the range of the torque dip, as well as advanced timing. This would indicate that cylinder filling is not as good as elsewhere in the range.

Copy pasta of another of my posts in that thread:

(From a bike tuning book

Where the pipe produces a flat spot, cylinder filling sags and so does flame speed, thus requiring more advance.

So it is probably there on the street, too.

I personally don't think the 'dip' is a huge issue given that the car is geared to pretty much avoid it at max RPM shifts, and has the low peak for grunt when putting around town and short shifting. But placebo effect for some drivers maybe? They've seen the dip, so they 'feel' the dip?

[getbent]

I would like to see you guys test a proper full-length header and move the high-flow cat and O2 sensors to the midpipe along with whatever resonators necessary to prevent drone/rasp. Do you think that more power could be made by doing this rather than the compromise of keeping the catalytic converter in the header?

[industrial]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

So please, by all means, chime in with your applications, your use of the car and the requirements therein so that we can determine how to divide and conquer for different segments of the market.

Sound is absolutely important to me. More so than making power or weight or cost.

+I want some additional exhaust noise. I like the sound of the auto factory exhaust the best so far.
+I want some power. Tbh, my expectations were pretty low. I was expecting around 30whp from header, exhaust and tune. You guys seem to already be there without a tune...
+I want at least 1 high flow cat.
+Lighter than stock would be nice, but I'd rather have something durable and properly heatshielded.

-I will not buy an exhaust that will wake up the neighborhood when I drive home at night.
-I will not buy an exhaust with rasp.
-I will not buy an exhaust that drones.

I don't mind paying more for good quality stuff. I never buy Chinese knockoffs.

[NOBROWS]

im in for a nameless intake setup , be cool if it had a scoop setup kinda like the mugen boxes for the honda s2k

[Spaceywilly]

I'm definitely on the more weight for a better sound camp. I have to be honest, after watching the videos of tainen's car with the full header back, I don't think I'd buy it if it sounded like that. It is just too loud and sounds like a bunch of wasps in a tin can. I am all for making the most power, but a great sound is more important to me. I still sart my WRX up every now and then just to hear the awesome sound coming from the stromung cat back. If someone can make a BRZ sound like that, I'll gladly get out the checkbook.

[speed3]

I'm curious to know what the same setup as Tainens car would do if the cat was moved from the header to the midpipe.

This would be my preferred option eventually provided it's not too loud.

[arghx7]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Finally digging into the datalogs. Been a bit of a hassle to get my favorite log viewer to work with the formatting of the CSV's output by Auterra's DynoScan OBDII Application, but I'm getting it working pretty well. So far, I'm throroughly impressed with the high pressure fuel pump on these cars. Seeing max fuel rail pressure in the 3000psi range. That's pretty hefty as far as direct injection pumps go...

20 mega pascal is about right for peak pressure on a modern system with side-mount injection. Systems with center mounted injectors will go a lot higher. The fuel pressure is trending higher to meet tightening particulate emissions standards. That makes me think the stock DI injectors are nearly maxed out after all. The crank angle window for injection is narrow.

[Symbiont]

Originally Posted by Jason@Nameless

Another thing to ask at this point is what directions the community would like to see us go based on the results we have currently seen in these designs. What are your thoughts on sound vs. weight, etc. We can get more power out of these cars at the cost of sound, without a doubt. Our goal is to develop the lightest weight, best sounding compromise of designs but if there is a significant division in the market between people wanting maximum power and torque vs. streetability, we have no qualms with splitting our development accordingly.

So please, by all means, chime in with your applications, your use of the car and the requirements therein so that we can determine how to divide and conquer for different segments of the market.

Jason

Personally, I'm looking for a system that does the following (in order of importance):

A) Makes power and torque
B) Maintains the cats for as much emission compliance as possible
C) Hopefully helps smooth out the dip o' death
D) Sounds aggressive, but not too loud
E) Looks fantastic
F) Saves some weight

This will be for daily driving and a bit of canyon carving. Track use will be almost non-existent on this car.

By the way, I can pretty much guarantee that the dip is not a placebo effect or imaginary (not sure what the actual numbers are, though), you can definitely feel it in day-to-day driving.