Nameless Performance Equal Length Stepped Header

[eriktherod]

I agree, impressive gains from a part that wasn't considered highly restrictive, least not compared to the header. The K20 sure was fun to do bolt-ons with, but I still don't think it made these kinds of gains simply from an exhaust.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by Coheed

I think those are great gains for just an exhaust system/header. But it does show that there are some limitation to what you can gain, and I'm not seeing the gains on the top end like I want to.

Of course, this just means there is more restriction elsewhere. I'm just used to seeing higher output from engines rated at 200hp. this engine should be making 170whp easily in stock form. Sigh.

I feel there is going to be a lot of gains with ECU tuning and some bigger upgrades. Bolt ons are probably only going to get you to 180whp before you need a tune. After that, you may see 200whp max... all speculation of course.

Good work jason, I enjoy your posts immensely.

All of this only makes sense if testing both cars on the same dyno

Bet if you had dynod your stock Sentra on a Mustang you wouldn't of gotten those numbers

I'm more interested in how much smoother the power can get rather than max power and I love how much info Nameless shares with us

I will deff buy something from you guys hell maybe even drive down there one of these days

the gains really are impressive IMO when compared to past NA boxers

[Coheed]

Originally Posted by Mr.Jay

All of this only makes sense if testing both cars on the same dyno

Bet if you had dynod your stock Sentra on a Mustang you wouldn't of gotten those numbers


the gains really are impressive IMO when compared to past NA boxers

Actually this sentra made that power on a mustang style dynomite dyno. A stock civic SI (K&N air filter only) made 180whp for comparison. Turbo, i make 510+whp on the dynojet, but only 470whp on this dynomite. It's a heartbreaker dyno for sure.

All things considered, the BRZ is only 20hp off of the stock RX8 which was highly overrated from factory.

[jedibow]

Originally Posted by Coheed

I made 170whp in my bone stock SR20VE in my sentra. The motor was rated at 187hp with 10.3:1 compression. I guess I was spoiled.

I think the output is great for a factory engine, but it should still be around 175whp dynojet in factory form. Perhaps it needs more breaking in.

I'm used to seeing stock civic SI putting out 180+whp stock, and I was hoping for a bit more pep. luckily, unlike my ve, aftermarket support for the fa20 will be awesome.

I'd like to see cams, and intake mani added on. I'll be excited to see these engines making 250whp.

The VE was and still is one of the best flowing heads ever designed, yes I would have to say that you were very spoiled. I would also like to point out that the SR20VE did not have to be limited by the current emmisions restrictions that the FA20 has to deal with. This engine is fantastic, look how flat the torque curve is, and how well it breaths up top. I think that we should be patient and see where company's like nameless take this platform and not start the whole "Mazda cheeted me because the RX-8 is rated at 238 bhp, and I only see 175 at the wheels." The renesis is a great engine, and so far so is the FA20.

[Mr.Jay]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Actually this sentra made that power on a mustang style dynomite dyno. A stock civic SI (K&N air filter only) made 180whp for comparison. Turbo, i make 510+whp on the dynojet, but only 470whp on this dynomite. It's a heartbreaker dyno for sure.

All things considered, the BRZ is only 20hp off of the stock RX8 which was highly overrated from factory.

wow colour me impressed

[Sportsguy83]

Originally Posted by Coheed

Actually this sentra made that power on a mustang style dynomite dyno. A stock civic SI (K&N air filter only) made 180whp for comparison.

RWD cars have bigger losses of energy on power/drive train than FWD cars. That is why you see the drop from the rated 200 hp, to less than the 180 WHP for the SI.

[Illusive]

Famous quote from dynojet

"it doesn't matter if it stated horsepower or alligators, at the end of the day does the car have more alligators than when you started."

I think too many people get caught up in the peak torque and peak hp readings. What really matters is that dyno's are tuning and diagnostic tools. You have to weigh the gains against the baseline.

Back on topic, excellent gains Nameless.

[Jason@Nameless]

Finally digging into the datalogs. Been a bit of a hassle to get my favorite log viewer to work with the formatting of the CSV's output by Auterra's DynoScan OBDII Application, but I'm getting it working pretty well. So far, I'm throroughly impressed with the high pressure fuel pump on these cars. Seeing max fuel rail pressure in the 3000psi range. That's pretty hefty as far as direct injection pumps go...

Unfortunately the data acquisition rate of the Auterra is piss poor. Not sure if that's just the OBDII refresh rate or the number of data points that I am collecting. Will do some further testing today to see how rapid of a refresh rate I can get. After perusing the logs there are certain items I was logging that are consistent enough to not have to watch anymore (LTFT, STFT, etc).

J

[Jason@Nameless]

Ok so we just got the car off the dyno this morning (tested the same design as previously tested, but without the midpipe) and the car is making the exact same power as before. I'll have the graphs here shortly to compare. So good news and bad news. Bad news is that the car didn't pick up any extra power over the weekend. Good news is, you don't need a midpipe to make this level of power.

Now, on top of this discussion, we have been working with a number of Australian customers and frequenting their message boards for the GT86 as well as some of the ECU Tuning forums and there have been some rumors of the torque dip being exaggerated on the dyno vs. on the street based on the load that the dyno puts onto the car vs. the load the car sees on the street. If that is the case, then there may be some increase power from ECU learning that doesn't translate to the dyno, but again, that's total speculation and it should be an equal improvement no matter what system you run.

Next steps on this car are to work on some more designs including our intake as well as getting a catless version of this stepped header tested out on the car asap. We have also been discussing some other, rather wild, options for the car that we'll share after we get another look under the car to evaluate the feasibility of the routing for these alternate header designs. We have also investigated the feasibility of getting the maximum amount of power out of the car by having an alternate exhaust length (electric cutout or race day side exit design). The tuned length of the primaries and secondaries on the header as well as the collector diameters are not the only dial to turn in order to bias torque, midrange or high end horsepower. The collector and muffler/tailpipe combo harmonics also have the ability to impact power levels. But we're talking exhausts that are half of the length of the car vs. anything the full length.

More to come.

Jason

[Jason@Nameless]

Another thing to ask at this point is what directions the community would like to see us go based on the results we have currently seen in these designs. What are your thoughts on sound vs. weight, etc. We can get more power out of these cars at the cost of sound, without a doubt. Our goal is to develop the lightest weight, best sounding compromise of designs but if there is a significant division in the market between people wanting maximum power and torque vs. streetability, we have no qualms with splitting our development accordingly.

So please, by all means, chime in with your applications, your use of the car and the requirements therein so that we can determine how to divide and conquer for different segments of the market.

Jason

[Lost]

I am definitely in the "add a few pounds to make it sound better" camp. That said, I think it sounds really good right now. Again, thanks for sharing all this information. It has put you guys at the top of my list if I ever actually get my car...

[Tainen]

I wanna see that resonator welded on and see a dyno graph, see if it 1) improves sound/makes it quietter 2) makes any more power. It needs to accomplish the first in order to be a really great daily driver type of exhaust/header combo for most customers, imo. If it accomplishes the 2nd, then... it's just even more awesome.

Cheers for having the fastest consumer owned BRZ in the country so far! (I'm ignoring the drift frankencars hah)

[phm14]

I'm running the axleback only, and wouldn't want it any louder for street. Wouldn't bother me if it was a bit softer as long as it wasn't more restrictive. An extra pound or two isn't super critical since I'm not racing the car. My AB is only ~7lbs lighter than the stock unit as is.

[uspspro]

Honestly, I would be happy with the full setup you have on Tainen's car with a resonator (or other sound tuning devices) to ensure low amounts of drone and reduce the little rasp.