2017 Toyota 86 - new name, styling, and more power

[joro2]

Originally Posted by NLS8520

I am embracing the new look as a function over form mentality being these changes were made in the wind tunnel by Toyota for Aerodynamic reasons.

If that is the case, that the cow-catcher is in actuality about aerodynamics and function, I could be persuaded to feel a bit better about the redesign. But there's still no functional argument (or is there?) for the fake suede and the plastic "teeth" in the fog light bumper wells?

As I type this I feel a bit foolish for dwelling, but I'll reiterate that the 86 appeal was for me (and hopefully still is) function over appearance (for just appearance's sake).

[nikitopo]

Aerodynamics and function? This is another joke and I am reading lately a lot of it. Are you getting the underside panels with the updated model or still not? They should fix first the basic things for God's sake!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by joro2

If that is the case, that the cow-catcher is in actuality about aerodynamics and function, I could be persuaded to feel a bit better about the redesign. But there's still no functional argument (or is there?) for the fake suede and the plastic "teeth" in the fog light bumper wells?

As I type this I feel a bit foolish for dwelling, but I'll reiterate that the 86 appeal was for me (and hopefully still is) function over appearance (for just appearance's sake).

Although there is no doubt that the new design may have better aero it isn't like we are talking F1 car or stealth bomber levels of performance here. That .08% (made up number) improvement is meaningless to most people.
I strongly suspect that the major reason behind that design is simply to put the appearance more in step with the rest of the Toyota line up.
One of the things that drew me to the FRS in the first place was the simple and classic flow of the body lines and the new bumper takes that flow, rips it into pieces and stomps on the remains. There is not one line in it that flows with the rest of the body.

[NLS8520]

Originally Posted by nikitopo

Aerodynamics and function? This is another joke and I am reading lately a lot of it. Are you getting the underside panels with the updated model or still not? They should fix first the basic things for God's sake!

Chief Engineer Tada unveils the 2017 updated Toyota 86 with a theme of pure driving, for every one. Description is about the reintroduction, updates, and identity of the 86.

Points:

1. There are over 100,000 86/BRZ on the roads around the world.
2. The ownership demographics is becoming younger in age each year.
3. Toyota (Japan and Australia) is concentrating efforts to promote and assist grassroots racing efforts for the Sunday racers.
4. The platform is "ideal rear-drive sports car" with economy of participating in attainable grass roots racing.
5. Tires are one of the attention Tada gave to updates. Collaborating with a tire maker to produce the ideal tire for this car.
6. Driver tactility was the main focus for the updates, including all control mechanisms such as brakes, suspension tune with damper valve design, mated with high-load, low-resistance springs. This also applies to aerodynamics to smallest details. High speed operation is affected in major ways from the start, and the 2017 update took it further, including the aluminum rear wing and front air splitter bumper using more of the available air for stability and efficiency. Aluminum tapering and harmonic damping to reduce vibrations to enhance feel as well as refined sense of tactility. Lighter wheels along with Brembo braking calipers.
7. Much of the driver tactility update is based on the feedback from racing operations and drivers who have been involved in endurance racing.
The details like the 7000 rpm mark on the tachometer is now at 12 o'clock position for peripheral vision reading of redline approach.
8. Many of these updates are things that evolve the 86 to a more refined level of the original goals, but not changing the character.
It's a simple presentation but one that define the missions for the changes in the minor change he calls in other descriptions "Kouki" the latest model of a driving enthusiast's car.

From Moto:

The main focus for the redesign as Chief Engineer Tada claims is for the complete enhancement and concentration to improve overall air-flow, and down-force characteristics of the 86. This was the primary goal of function over all other elements

[NLS8520]

Originally Posted by joro2

If that is the case, that the cow-catcher is in actuality about aerodynamics and function, I could be persuaded to feel a bit better about the redesign. But there's still no functional argument (or is there?) for the fake suede and the plastic "teeth" in the fog light bumper wells?

As I type this I feel a bit foolish for dwelling, but I'll reiterate that the 86 appeal was for me (and hopefully still is) function over appearance (for just appearance's sake).

Yes they are meant to function as canards. From Toyota.com: "each surface sculpted to help give this ride a wind-cheating drag coefficient of just .27 Cd. And best of all, this aggressive style helps optimize overall performance, too. The large chin spoiler and integrated canards help keep the front end planted firmly to the ground for sharpened turn-in and response. The restyled rear diffuser improves airflow and reduces turbulent air exiting from under the car, adding function"

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by NLS8520

Chief Engineer Tada unveils the 2017 updated Toyota 86 with a theme of pure driving, for every one. Description is about the reintroduction, updates, and identity of the 86.

Points:

1. There are over 100,000 86/BRZ on the roads around the world.
2. The ownership demographics is becoming younger in age each year.
3. Toyota (Japan and Australia) is concentrating efforts to promote and assist grassroots racing efforts for the Sunday racers.
4. The platform is "ideal rear-drive sports car" with economy of participating in attainable grass roots racing.
5. Tires are one of the attention Tada gave to updates. Collaborating with a tire maker to produce the ideal tire for this car.
6. Driver tactility was the main focus for the updates, including all control mechanisms such as brakes, suspension tune with damper valve design, mated with high-load, low-resistance springs. This also applies to aerodynamics to smallest details. High speed operation is affected in major ways from the start, and the 2017 update took it further, including the aluminum rear wing and front air splitter bumper using more of the available air for stability and efficiency. Aluminum tapering and harmonic damping to reduce vibrations to enhance feel as well as refined sense of tactility. Lighter wheels along with Brembo braking calipers.
7. Much of the driver tactility update is based on the feedback from racing operations and drivers who have been involved in endurance racing.
The details like the 7000 rpm mark on the tachometer is now at 12 o'clock position for peripheral vision reading of redline approach.
8. Many of these updates are things that evolve the 86 to a more refined level of the original goals, but not changing the character.
It's a simple presentation but one that define the missions for the changes in the minor change he calls in other descriptions "Kouki" the latest model of a driving enthusiast's car.

From Moto:

The main focus for the redesign as Chief Engineer Tada claims is for the complete enhancement and concentration to improve overall air-flow, and down-force characteristics of the 86. This was the primary goal of function over all other elements

Yes it says it "took it further" but also was clear that the original design did much. How much the "further" really is is not stated and how the changes impact the average driver could be disputed. I have little doubt that a track regular will feel and appreciate the changes but the vast majority will never be able to tell the difference.
I know I sound like I am against the changes but that is not the case. Although I personally do not care for the appearance I am in no way saying the update should not have happened. Overall the car shows an improvement and that has to happen in order for it to survive.

[joro2]

Originally Posted by NLS8520

Yes they are meant to function as canards. From Toyota.com: "each surface sculpted to help give this ride a wind-cheating drag coefficient of just .27 Cd. And best of all, this aggressive style helps optimize overall performance, too. The large chin spoiler and integrated canards help keep the front end planted firmly to the ground for sharpened turn-in and response. The restyled rear diffuser improves airflow and reduces turbulent air exiting from under the car, adding function"

Thanks for the info re: aero properties of the 2017 design changes. There's also this blurb from the official 2017 86 brochure:

http://www.toyota.com/content/ebroch..._ebrochure.pdf

"New vortex generators on the fenders help control turbulent airflow, enhancing the stability of 86. These also work to keep the front end planted firmly to the ground, so you can stay connected to the road."

Another piece of 2017 body trim I had previously assumed was purely ornamental.

[rkaywhodat]

Phew, I'm glad to see Toyota didn't add the fake buttons to the steering wheel like the brz.

[Zaku]

I think what needs to happen soon is a 86 vs BRZ kouki review. Like with the FRS and BRZ and we figured out they were initially tuned differently right now the fronts are different and the 86 has a diffuser in the rear. What does this mean when it goes against each other? We might have that initial difference with the FRS/BRZ where one was more mild than the other.

I'm excited to see this review, there likely to be few differences but there will be a difference between looks and interior.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by NLS8520

This also applies to aerodynamics to smallest details. High speed operation is affected in major ways from the start, and the 2017 update took it further, including the aluminum rear wing and front air splitter bumper using more of the available air for stability and efficiency.

The underbody panels are more important. If you can recall, the drag coefficient on our cars is getting lower with these panels. They create also some down force. If they really wanted to increase stability and efficiency, they had to install these panels to the NA cars. All the rest seems marketing hype and as already mentioned should provide minimal improvement. I am also not negative to changes, but there were other more important things.

[nikitopo]

Originally Posted by joro2

Thanks for the info re: aero properties of the 2017 design changes. There's also this blurb from the official 2017 86 brochure:

http://www.toyota.com/content/ebroch..._ebrochure.pdf

"New vortex generators on the fenders help control turbulent airflow, enhancing the stability of 86. These also work to keep the front end planted firmly to the ground, so you can stay connected to the road."

Another piece of 2017 body trim I had previously assumed was purely ornamental.

I checked the brochure and it pretty much justifies what I mentioned before. Drag coefficient is still 0.29. Previous model with the underbody panels could have a coefficient up to 0.27!

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Zaku

I think what needs to happen soon is a 86 vs BRZ kouki review. Like with the FRS and BRZ and we figured out they were initially tuned differently right now the fronts are different and the 86 has a diffuser in the rear. What does this mean when it goes against each other? We might have that initial difference with the FRS/BRZ where one was more mild than the other.

I'm excited to see this review, there likely to be few differences but there will be a difference between looks and interior.

Not sure where but someplace on here is a video of the old anew versions of each of the cars on the track all at once. Forget where though. Driver variations aside lets just say the old 86 did not fair well against the others.

[Doubletap]

I don't like the front either but I can see the appeal. What stands out to me is that the "25k sports car" selling point has been set aside. The MSRP on these things are firmly in the range of other cars (WRX, GTI, ST's). Seems Toyota found Subaru can sell these for more and are doubling down on it's RWD, LightWeight Sports Coupe concept, shedding the "affordable" part. I understand costs have gone up since 2012. But if the sales have plataued at the old price point how will it fare at a higher one? It's going to be interesting how the car press reviews the refreshed models.

[Ro_Ja]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not sure where but someplace on here is a video of the old anew versions of each of the cars on the track all at once. Forget where though. Driver variations aside lets just say the old 86 did not fair well against the others.

But start modifying both those cars and you end up exactly the same. 😂

Stock for stock, the new car should definitely win, because that's the whole point. They want to get people to buy the new cars.

Honestly though, when I saw that video, I thought it would've been interesting to have an independent race doing the same thing, but stick a modified zenki in the race and see how well (or poorly?) it can do.