2017 delivery time frame?

[TitaniumBones]

You are right that his system can't take orders and that is what I said.

That he hasn't determined when you can take orders doesn't mean he is incompetent, just means he hasn't gone that extra mile or isn't able to.

If you are upset that no one will sell you a brz at invoice, contact max the golden retriever at subaru pacific and tell him 'sebastian the dachshund' referred you. He will sell you one at invoice. (not joking)

I have emails from about 5+ in the socal area that agreed to invoice or below.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The salesman in question is a regular member here who has not lead us astray before. At this point in time his system will not accept orders for PP and we can take that as fact not incompetence.

If you have some weird and wonderful inside track that you can order now then that is great but since everybody doesn't have an "unnamed source" to fall back on.

I also highly doubt that all dealers are clambering to sell their cars for under invoice at this point. Nobody has any clue how well these facelifts will sell so it is pretty premature to say the dealers will be giving them away. As far as the only people buying them are on this thread goes that is a plain silly comment. This forum represents about 5% of the owners and that is hardly a majority.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by TitaniumBones

You are right that his system can't take orders and that is what I said.

That he hasn't determined when you can take orders doesn't mean he is incompetent, just means he hasn't gone that extra mile or isn't able to.

If you are upset that no one will sell you a brz at invoice, contact max the golden retriever at subaru pacific and tell him 'sebastian the dachshund' referred you. He will sell you one at invoice. (not joking)

I have emails from about 5+ in the socal area that agreed to invoice or below.

In SoCal maybe but that does not paint the picture for the whole market. I am not upset about price since I already have a car but you may be leading others down the garden path. You may have emails but no car yet so those quotes may not be worth the screen they are printed on when it comes down to delivery.
Or maybe there are so many allocated for your region that they will in fact hand them out under invoice. That remains to be seen in reality though.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by TitaniumBones

This is actually pretty easy. The best place to shop for a car is from your living room via email. Especially if you are new, it's best to avoid the dealership and avoid direct conversation. They have all kinds of games that you may not even realize they are playing to pressure you.

If you email them, then you have the upper hand. You can leave/ignore them at any time and they can't do anything about it. You can accept an offer from one of a dozen other dealers at any time and they know that and can't do anything about it. Look on a site like edmunds.com and find the invoice price. Understand that invoice is not what they really pay for the car. They get holdbacks and other incentives so they are still making money at invoice price. Most dealerships make the majority of their money on service anyway and don't even care if they make a profit on a new car as long as you take it there to service. Take the invoice price and email the dealer saying you will buy the car 'take it or leave it' at that price. You don't need to prove anything as the truth is invoice price is fine for any dealer on any car. They may so no, but so what? Let them know that if they say yes, then they have an easy sales you will put a deposit/buy right away. Use the advantage of the assumed slow receipt of emails and wait until you hear back from most/all of the dealers you emailed. Sometimes one will undercut the others. You can either accept that or use that to get an even better price from another dealer. I tend to pick who I like best and say I want to use them, but they have to match the best price (this is very fair to do and a good salesman will appreciate that you give them the opportunity).

It is the salesman's job to get as much money from you as they think feasible and you can't fault them for that. Invoice price is always a fair price to pay for a car and allows them some, but not enormous, profit. Some salesman will hold out for the uninformed grandma who will pay $2k over sticker and if you find one of those just walk away.

If you have any further questions or others do on buying cars feel free to pm me.

Credibility:
I used to work at GM corporate, was a top ranking fortune 500 b2b salesman and investment banker on wall st for the majority of my career, and this BRZ is the 41st car I've bought in my life. Never paid over invoice.

Good advice.

What would you suggest when purchasing a new release vehicle? e.g., Civic Type R coming coming in Fall 2017.

Seems like most people are happy paying MSRP.

[Psilox]

Originally Posted by ayau

Good advice.

What would you suggest when purchasing a new release vehicle? e.g., Civic Type R coming coming in Fall 2017.

Seems like most people are happy paying MSRP.

Just to put things in a little perspective, I was offered 28.1 off the bat from a dealership around the Pacific NW, limited, with PP, without even directly asking for a quote. I just wanted to know when they'd be available. Now to me that's a pretty okay starting point considering that's with PP, and it's possible they'd come down after negotiation (of course, I can't know that until I'm ready to make an offer on the car and such). I don't think paying MSRP is (almost) ever a good idea.

Sent from my potato

[TitaniumBones]

Socal is as hot a market as it gets for cars, so if they will do it here they should do it anywhere (if not, buy it here). I was previously looking for a BMW M2 and couldn't get one for under $5k over invoice. They all played the 'we have no allocations, oh wait.. if you pay $5-$20k over invoice we have one that just came available'. All bs, they have plenty of allocations.

I told the dealers to stuff it and I'd find another car (and did). I'm not trying to lead anyone down a wrong path, but rather share my experiences to help others get a fair deal.

The BRZ, while hot on this forum, is sadly just not a hot car in the market today and if you let a salesman convince you otherwise then you've been taken. Us enthusiasts love it and they will use that against you best they can, but the general public doesn't want anything to do with it. They want cushy automatic luxury cars that drive themselves. Great opportunity for us, use it to your advantage.

The pp version is not in production yet, so I wouldn't expect to have a physical car at this point but I've never had a written contract agreement with a deposit for an ordered car that was not honored.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

In SoCal maybe but that does not paint the picture for the whole market. I am not upset about price since I already have a car but you may be leading others down the garden path. You may have emails but no car yet so those quotes may not be worth the screen they are printed on when it comes down to delivery.
Or maybe there are so many allocated for your region that they will in fact hand them out under invoice. That remains to be seen in reality though.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by Psilox

Just to put things in a little perspective, I was offered 28.1 off the bat from a dealership around the Pacific NW, limited, with PP, without even directly asking for a quote. I just wanted to know when they'd be available. Now to me that's a pretty okay starting point considering that's with PP, and it's possible they'd come down after negotiation (of course, I can't know that until I'm ready to make an offer on the car and such). I don't think paying MSRP is (almost) ever a good idea.

Sent from my potato

I too called a dealer a couple weeks ago about a 2017 BRZ, and he said he was selling 3% over invoice or something.

I don't think a BRZ is a fair comparison to make because it's not a brand new model. Most people who wanted the BRZ back in 2012 already have the car. The initial demand isn't there anymore.

Just look at the Focus RS. It seems like some people are pretty happy paying MSRP. Ford dealers are having a hard time keeping them in stock, so why should they sell below MSRP?

[TitaniumBones]

I'm not sure about production on the Type R so I will caveat my comment that I am not a reliable source on it, but on occasion paying MSRP is reasonable if you truely love the car. I would think the Type R is the kind of car that ultimately will be produced in a quantity limited to how many people buy, so I'd be very reluctant to pay MSRP on it unless you really have to get the first batch. I would not be surprised if the first ones on the lot sell for that.

Some cars, like the Mustang GT350 have been in production a year and still are pretty tough to get even at MSRP without a connection because they really don't make as many as people want. My coworker just paid $20k over for one (crazy), because a 'doctor from santa barbara was coming to look at it tonight'.

Originally Posted by ayau

Good advice.

What would you suggest when purchasing a new release vehicle? e.g., Civic Type R coming coming in Fall 2017.

Seems like most people are happy paying MSRP.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by TitaniumBones

I'm not sure about production on the Type R so I will caveat my comment that I am not a reliable source on it, but on occasion paying MSRP is reasonable if you truely love the car. I would think the Type R is the kind of car that ultimately will be produced in a quantity limited to how many people buy, so I'd be very reluctant to pay MSRP on it unless you really have to get the first batch. I would not be surprised if the first ones on the lot sell for that.

Some cars, like the Mustang GT350 have been in production a year and still are pretty tough to get even at MSRP without a connection because they really don't make as many as people want. My coworker just paid $20k over for one (crazy), because a 'doctor from santa barbara was coming to look at it tonight'.

Agreed. The first batch of a new vehicle, especially if it's obvious there's more demand than there is supply, MSRP seems to be reasonable.

How do you handle getting the most out of your trade in? You pretty much have to go to the physical dealer to get an appraisal done.

[TitaniumBones]

Trade ins are always a bad deal as most dealers only want your car if they can steal it from you. Best way of course is to sell it private party. Either way, you want to establish what is called a 'BATNA' (stupid attempt at an acronym I know, but it's a sales training thing). Best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Bring the car to carmax, get a quote. Bring the car to a couple of dealers, get a quote. I've found cars.com does an online quoting thing that can get some decent offers from independent dealers also. Whatever the best offer is here, you know is the BATNA. Try to sell it private party for anything above that if you want a quick sale, or bring your best offer to the dealer you like. Have them quote the car, then if it's worse than other offers give them the best you've got and say they can have it if they beat that offer.

Time is really your friend on selling a car, if you can be patient for a private party to find that just right person who loves your particular car and have the luxury of turning down mid tier offers you'll get top dollar eventually from some grandma that thinks kelly blue book private party is a bargain.

Just never let your cars trade in have anything to do with the negotiation of your new cars price. They should be two independent transactions.

Originally Posted by ayau

Agreed. The first batch of a new vehicle, especially if it's obvious there's more demand than there is supply, MSRP seems to be reasonable.

How do you handle getting the most out of your trade in? You pretty much have to go to the physical dealer to get an appraisal done.

[ayau]

Originally Posted by TitaniumBones

Trade ins are always a bad deal as most dealers only want your car if they can steal it from you. Best way of course is to sell it private party. Either way, you want to establish what is called a 'BATNA' (stupid attempt at an acronym I know, but it's a sales training thing). Best alternative to a negotiated agreement. Bring the car to carmax, get a quote. Bring the car to a couple of dealers, get a quote. I've found cars.com does an online quoting thing that can get some decent offers from independent dealers also. Whatever the best offer is here, you know is the BATNA. Try to sell it private party for anything above that if you want a quick sale, or bring your best offer to the dealer you like. Have them quote the car, then if it's worse than other offers give them the best you've got and say they can have it if they beat that offer.

Time is really your friend on selling a car, if you can be patient for a private party to find that just right person who loves your particular car and have the luxury of turning down mid tier offers you'll get top dollar eventually from some grandma that thinks kelly blue book private party is a bargain.

Just never let your cars trade in have anything to do with the negotiation of your new cars price. They should be two independent transactions.

In most states, you receive a tax break for the new vehicle if you trade in your old vehicle. The question then becomes, can you sell your car 2-4k more than trade in value just to break even? If you're going to break even selling privately, it would make sense to just do the trade in.

It looks like California doesn't have the tax incentive.

[TitaniumBones]

Ya, trade ins make a lot more sense outside of CA I'm from NY until 3 years ago and found dealers gave much better trade in prices there. That and the tax break make trade ins here pretty unappealing.

Originally Posted by ayau

In most states, you receive a tax break for the new vehicle if you trade in your old vehicle. The question then becomes, can you sell your car 2-4k more than trade in value just to break even? If you're going to break even selling privately, it would make sense to just do the trade in.

It looks like California doesn't have the tax incentive.

[Elleteeh]

Has anyone in Canada that preordered receive theirs yet? Since Canada was apparently able to preorder two weeks before those in the US. I forgot who said they preordered theirs like the first week of July so it should be right at the 6 week mark now.

These next 3 weeks will be so agonizing...ugh.

[Psilox]

Anyone speak Spanish? It looks like this guy has one (or access to one) already:

From the comments it seems like he's going to be posting a full video soon as well.

Sent from my potato

[Psilox]

Alrighty, I'm a fool, he already has a full video up!

Edit: If anyone can post any translation of (even parts of) his impressions, needless to say a lot of us would be greatly obliged.

Sent from my potato