Two schools of thoughts Miata and 86

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Apex-Apex

I only live in southern California but I don't see why I have to mash on my pedal just to pass a car.

Buying an apple and complaining it's not an orange is a waste of time, go buy the damn orange, you don't have to eat the apple.

[Apex-Apex]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Buying an apple and complaining it's not an orange is a waste of time, go buy the damn orange, you don't have to eat the apple.

I'm not complaining, I'm just stating what I think. If you think it's enough power for you, that's fine.

[EAGLE5]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Buying an apple and complaining it's not an orange is a waste of time, go buy the damn orange, you don't have to eat the apple.

Or get a orapple or a apporange.

I don't know what I'm saying.

Were you at the summer kickoff and I missed you? I'm so sad.

[humfrz]

Originally Posted by Apex-Apex

.........I live in Walnut, CA by Pomona, CA which is in the south. When I used to commute, I go against the traffic so there's room to pass but I would need ample space to pass. Again, this is just based on my opinions and observations. I understand everyone has their thought on this.

Oopps .... my bad ...... I totally forgot about Walnut down south of West Covina.

My younger brother, Viet Nam Vet, ex-marine, turned hippie, used to live in some sort of hippie compound behind a big house, in what looked to be migrant housing back in the day, in West Covina.

After a day of doing business at UC Riverside, I drove up into the compound in my dark green, 4 door, 1972 Ford Gran Torino, (really, I shit you not) and jumped out dressed in a suit ...... man did they scatter .... people stuffing stuff everywhere ........till my brother got them calmed down ...... convinced them I wasn't a fed.

Ample space to pass .......??

Hell, there is "never ample space to pass" ........ the more powerful car you get ...... the shorter space you try to pass in ..........


humfrz

[Apex-Apex]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Oopps .... my bad ...... I totally forgot about Walnut down south of West Covina.

My younger brother, Viet Nam Vet, ex-marine, turned hippie, used to live in some sort of hippie compound behind a big house, in what looked to be migrant housing back in the day, in West Covina.

After a day of doing business at UC Riverside, I drove up into the compound in my dark green, 4 door, 1972 Ford Gran Torino, (really, I shit you not) and jumped out dressed in a suit ...... man did they scatter .... people stuffing stuff everywhere ........till my brother got them calmed down ...... convinced them I wasn't a fed.

Ample space to pass .......??

Hell, there is "never ample space to pass" ........ the more powerful car you get ...... the shorter space you try to pass in ..........


humfrz

Wow, that's pretty crazy, I didn't know that about West Covina and I lived in this area for almost 20 years. Did you also go to school in UC Riverside? I did my undergrad there.

[Apex-Apex]

Originally Posted by humfrz

Oopps .... my bad ...... I totally forgot about Walnut down south of West Covina.

My younger brother, Viet Nam Vet, ex-marine, turned hippie, used to live in some sort of hippie compound behind a big house, in what looked to be migrant housing back in the day, in West Covina.

After a day of doing business at UC Riverside, I drove up into the compound in my dark green, 4 door, 1972 Ford Gran Torino, (really, I shit you not) and jumped out dressed in a suit ...... man did they scatter .... people stuffing stuff everywhere ........till my brother got them calmed down ...... convinced them I wasn't a fed.

Ample space to pass .......??

Hell, there is "never ample space to pass" ........ the more powerful car you get ...... the shorter space you try to pass in ..........


humfrz

Maybe this will bring back some memories

[Yoshoobaroo]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
I daily drive for almost 50K miles a year. With 98% of that highway. Through all seasons.

You have to downshift is an issue somehow? That is called DRIVING.

Welcome to Internet car forums, where nobody wants to be caught dead buying an automatic sports car, but people will bitch about clutching in traffic all day

I dailied an automatic SAAB for 6 months between my E46 and the BRZ. THAT nearly killed me, that to me was horrible to daily. I freaking love shifting around the torque dip, it forces me to drive the car the way it was meant to be.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Apex-Apex

The stock power level is pretty horrible to daily in. Passing people on the freeway requires downshifts and driving on an uphill freeway requires practically full throttle.

Originally Posted by Apex-Apex

I only live in southern California but I don't see why I have to mash on my pedal just to pass a car.

Originally Posted by Apex-Apex

I'm not complaining, I'm just stating what I think. If you think it's enough power for you, that's fine.

But by using words such as "horrible" and "painful" for DD your are complaining.

I think the problem is that many expect it to be a highly capable race car that you can use on the streets when in fact it is a street car that can be used to race. These are two different priorities when being designed.

Your own build sort of shows that thought process since you consider it a "subtle yet fun street car" when it is anything but subtle (should be fun as hell though and it is nice work which I strongly applaud).

Current Modifications:

Exterior•Blitz Front Bumper
•JDM 86 Headlights
•Seibon Hood
•Seibon Trunk
•TRD Dry Carbon Fender Fin
•TRD Sideskirt
•TRD Roof Antenna
•Velox Rear Diffuser
•Tom's Taillight
•Voltex Type 7 Swan Neck 1700mm
•Beatrush Front Bumper Beam Brace

Engine:•Apexi Drop In Filter
•Tomei Equal Length Header
•JDL 3" Ultra Quiet overpipe and front pipe
•JDL 3" Catback
•Custom Setrab Oil Cooler
•Cusco Engine Mounts
•Raceng Cam Plate
•HKS v3 Supercharger
•HKS High Boost Pulley Kit
•Deatschwerks 750cc Injectors
•Deatschwerks 300C In Tank
•AEM 320LPH E85 Pump In Surge Tank
•Radium Fuel Surge Tank
•Radium Dual Catch Cans
•Koyo Aluminum Radiator
•Koyo Aluminum Fill Neck
•Samco Silicone Radiator Hose

Footwork•Brembo Clubsport BBK with 355mm Type 3 Rotors
•Brembo RE10 Compound
•Carbing Front Strut Bar with MCB brace
•Carbing Rear Strut Bar
•Racer X Fabrication Front Lower Control Arms
•SPL Rear Lower Control Arm
•SPL Bumpsteer Adjustable Tie Rods
•Cusco Differential Mount
•Cusco Transmission Mount Collar
•Cusco Engine Mount
•Perrin Shifter Bushing
•Whiteline 18mm Rear Sway Bar
•Password JDM Rear Spherical End Links
•JRZ RS Pro 2 Way
•Volk ZE40 18x10 +40 with 265/35/18 Bridgestone RE-71R

Interior•Defi ZD Clubsport
•Autopower 4 point modified by Kami Racing Service
•Schroth 6 point HANS Hybrid
•Recaro RS-G with ASM protector and belt guide
•JDM Rear Mirror
•Pioneer Appradio 4 SPH-DA120
•Bride FG Seat Rail
•Works Bell Steering Wheel Hub
•Nardi Steering Wheel 330MM Deep Corn

So yes, your car may be better at all things but that does not for one second make the stock/near stock version "horrible" or "painful" to drive daily no matter where you are.

[wbradley]

The twins, or the 86/FR-S specifically were supposed to hold a position in the market similar to what the AE86 did in the 80's. I was just discussing this with my buddy last night, he used to own an '87 MR2 back in the late 80' to mid 90's. As I recall, the Corolla GTS did 0-60 in ~8.3s but it was fun as hell to drive and you could wring out the shifter for maximum responsiveness. Fast forward to the present and the twins at ~6.2s 0-60 and 2+2 design are positioned precisely in the same place as the original 86/MR2, compared to present day vehicles, somewhere in between. My friend's only complaint was the engine was right behind his head and was pretty loud when giving it some revs. He used to shift at 3000 RPMs to hold power while getting quietest and smoothest response. Similar complaint to the twins, some people want quieter/smoother sometimes.

The Miata fills a niche occupied by more females and older men who wear tweed hats and driving gloves.

[Apex-Apex]

By describing it so, I'm not complaining, just stating what I believe the car to be stock as a DD. I completely agree that this car is made as a street car that you can track on the weekend. Don't get me wrong, I enjoyed driving the car in stock form to a certain degree but 50 more horsepower is not asking for much.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

But by using words such as "horrible" and "painful" for DD your are complaining.

I think the problem is that many expect it to be a highly capable race car that you can use on the streets when in fact it is a street car that can be used to race. These are two different priorities when being designed.

Your own build sort of shows that thought process since you consider it a "subtle yet fun street car" when it is anything but subtle (should be fun as hell though and it is nice work which I strongly applaud).

Current Modifications:

Exterior•Blitz Front Bumper
•JDM 86 Headlights
•Seibon Hood
•Seibon Trunk
•TRD Dry Carbon Fender Fin
•TRD Sideskirt
•TRD Roof Antenna
•Velox Rear Diffuser
•Tom's Taillight
•Voltex Type 7 Swan Neck 1700mm
•Beatrush Front Bumper Beam Brace

Engine:•Apexi Drop In Filter
•Tomei Equal Length Header
•JDL 3" Ultra Quiet overpipe and front pipe
•JDL 3" Catback
•Custom Setrab Oil Cooler
•Cusco Engine Mounts
•Raceng Cam Plate
•HKS v3 Supercharger
•HKS High Boost Pulley Kit
•Deatschwerks 750cc Injectors
•Deatschwerks 300C In Tank
•AEM 320LPH E85 Pump In Surge Tank
•Radium Fuel Surge Tank
•Radium Dual Catch Cans
•Koyo Aluminum Radiator
•Koyo Aluminum Fill Neck
•Samco Silicone Radiator Hose

Footwork•Brembo Clubsport BBK with 355mm Type 3 Rotors
•Brembo RE10 Compound
•Carbing Front Strut Bar with MCB brace
•Carbing Rear Strut Bar
•Racer X Fabrication Front Lower Control Arms
•SPL Rear Lower Control Arm
•SPL Bumpsteer Adjustable Tie Rods
•Cusco Differential Mount
•Cusco Transmission Mount Collar
•Cusco Engine Mount
•Perrin Shifter Bushing
•Whiteline 18mm Rear Sway Bar
•Password JDM Rear Spherical End Links
•JRZ RS Pro 2 Way
•Volk ZE40 18x10 +40 with 265/35/18 Bridgestone RE-71R

Interior•Defi ZD Clubsport
•Autopower 4 point modified by Kami Racing Service
•Schroth 6 point HANS Hybrid
•Recaro RS-G with ASM protector and belt guide
•JDM Rear Mirror
•Pioneer Appradio 4 SPH-DA120
•Bride FG Seat Rail
•Works Bell Steering Wheel Hub
•Nardi Steering Wheel 330MM Deep Corn

So yes, your car may be better at all things but that does not for one second make the stock/near stock version "horrible" or "painful" to drive daily no matter where you are.

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Ah, I appreciate that, does lend it some credence.

My last comment is that new pavement =\= faster, quite a few tracks have gotten slower with fresh pavement, but I'm sure you know VIR better than I do on that front.

Hahaha I have a feeling we could debate a long time on random car stuff. But yeah it's not so much the re-paving that made it faster but the way they re-paved it. In the process they widened it by ~6 feet in certain areas to make it faster and easier to pass in professional racing. Some of that widening happened in key corners like Oak Tree, which leads onto the back straight. The general consensus (based on lap times set by professional racers and amateurs alike) is the re-paved course is faster by anywhere from 1-3 seconds/lap, depending who you ask. Here's some information about the changes:

http://www.imsa.com/vir-repaving-off...-playing-field
http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-times-feature

So there's reason to think the ND is even further behind than the 2 seconds/lap indicate.

Once I saw how much faster the BRZ is from 60-120 mph (20.0 sec vs. 23.7 sec), it started making sense. C/D's data from VIR seems to bear it out too with the ND peaking at 110 mph and the BRZ hitting 117. Interestingly if I'm right and the BRZ is making up most of its time on the straights, its lead would only widen on VIR full course configuration where the back straight is lengthened, but that's a debate for another time lol.

[Peaty]

Originally Posted by MrDinkleman

Snip

I have a 10th Anniversary Model (1999) Miata and to me, they are equals in terms of driving fun/dynamics although the Twins are, of course, quieter and more rigid.

I also have a 99 Miata, I've done a few things to it but not much beyond putting in suspension bits and the 2000 exhaust manifold racing beat back box.

I agree both cars are very close in fun factor, however the biggest difference for me at least is how much better the shifting feels in the Miata. Last weekend I put in the Kartboy SS and that helped the a fair amount but it's still not to the same level as my 17 YO Miata.

Having said that I enjoy driving them both.

[wbradley]

Originally Posted by Peaty

I also have a 99 Miata, I've done a few things to it but not much beyond putting in suspension bits and the 2000 exhaust manifold racing beat back box.

I agree both cars are very close in fun factor, however the biggest difference for me at least is how much better the shifting feels in the Miata. Last weekend I put in the Kartboy SS and that helped the a fair amount but it's still not to the same level as my 17 YO Miata.

Having said that I enjoy driving them both.

For a lot less money you could have put on a shorty shift knob (Flossy makes one) and shortened the throw of the shifter. If you really want things tight a Perrin brass shifter washer (or whatever it is) takes out the *tiny* amount of play it has stock.

[Peaty]

I've been using KB shifters since 99 and like them a lot. The short throw really comes from extending the bit below the pivot point past the fulcrum not so much from lowering the knob. Plus I also put on the KB shift knob which lowers the height a little.