Engine Rod #3 Bent 2013 Scion FRS

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by mav1178

Also don't forget the FA20 is high compression in small displacement, which means very little cylinder volume when at TDC.

Old engines have much lower compression ratio and larger displacement.

-alex

And still can be hydro locked with enough fuel!

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Digging around yesterday (it was a really slow day for me) I found that the default for the injectors is of course closed. I would be exceedingly rare to fail open but rare does not mean can't happen. Since the system is very high pressure and that pressure is not relieved when shut down it could indeed force fuel through a stuck injector. It would not last long as the pressure would drop fast but it could. The only thing I could not find was the volume of the combustion chamber and that was provided. Since it is only 40 cc and you don't have to fill the whole thing for hydro lock I think the theory is sound. Probably a one in several million chance but reasonable.

The over heat of course is possible as well but to have no signs of heat anyplace else would be even greater odds than a stuck injector I would think. An engine overheated enough to bend a rod would almost certainly be easy to spot right away. I have not watched the video (probably should have and will) but an overheated engine usually makes a very distinctive sound ( heard it way to often) and there should be steam coming from someplace even if almost dry.

One thing we do not know is the condition of the rod connection to the crank. I have seen those let go, rod go off center and top out the cylinder bending the rod. Those usually showed clear mechanical damage where it hit though. Oh and that was on oid school big blocks so not even sure it is possible on a boxer.

With the info we have my money remains firmly on the most unlucky fuel hydro lock in history.

It wouldn't surprise me if I got that unlucky.. Haven't had any luck lately with cars... My previous car (2004 Mazda RX-8 I bought from craigslist (yes, I knew about Rotary engines and their issues with needing rebuilds)) had issues. I bought it at a pretty good price, because it already had issues. I fixed all of the issues though and the car was rubning great for 2 months, then one day as I was driving to school for a final, car began to overheat and I got out of the freeway and parked it and got a ride to school.

When I came back with a mechanic to check the car, we found that the previpus owner had replaced the radiator at some point and never put the bolts on the top to secure it... With all of the driving, the radiator came loose and was dangling barely off of the ground. This made a hose come off and coolant fell out and made my car overheat... This caused the coolant seals to blow inside of the engine. Rebuild needed.

I got the rebuild done. But I was low on cash and just had the essentials changed (coolant seals and other minor things) and total cost was about $1,000.

Car ran fine for another 2 months or so.. Then it started using more and more oil. I didn't have money to get it checked and had to get to school every day.. On the last 2 days I drove it, I was using 5 qts of oil every day to get to school and back (30 min to get to school, 30 min back). Yes, 5qts. A huge cloud of smoke would come out of the exhaust every time I started it.

Finally I had to get ot fixed.. It was the oil seals so another rebuild had to happen. I found someone to do it and was charging me $2,000 for the rebuild and everything. I did OT every week to get the money.. Was paying him little by little so he could start ordering the parts. Finally made the last payment and completed the $2,000 (yes I know... I shouldn't have paid him before the job was done) and then I helped him remove my engone from my car here at my house.. He took the engine and said he would have it done withing 2 weeks. Every werk he wohld have an excuse of why it was taking longer.

A month passed and the last call was made... I drove by his house, he wasn't there. It was different owners. Kept caling and no answer. Then a few days later he texts me saying he's going om vacation.. I tell him I need my money back and enging back. Nothing.

He then changed his number and I never heard from him again.

This is why I went agead and bought an FRS... I was done with headaches and just wanted a car I didn't have to worry about.

But look at where I'm at now.

[Clipdat]

jesus fucking christ man!

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by Clipdat

jesus fucking christ man!

Yeah, that's also why I don't like the way Toyota is treating me... I feel like they're walking all over me and I'm tired of people walking all over me. I wasn't even driving the car when this happened. When I pulled the code it even says there "Distance driven with CEL light on 0.0 miles." I'm confident I did nothing wrong to cause this. I shouldn't have to pay for this and I won't stop fighting Toyota about this until they, or someone, pays for it.

[humfrz]

DANG! ........ @Brandond15 ....... I suggest the next time you buy a car ...... it should be a NEW one .........

In the meantime, please keep us posted on this mess you're in ......


humfrz

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by humfrz

DANG! ........ @Brandond15 ....... I suggest the next time you buy a car ...... it should be a NEW one .........

In the meantime, please keep us posted on this mess you're in ......


humfrz

Oh trust me, I've told myself that so many times since this happened lol. Never getting a used car ever again!

But yeah, will do. Next update will be on Tuesday when I talk to the Toyota Rep directly.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Brandond15

Oh trust me, I've told myself that so many times since this happened lol. Never getting a used car ever again!

But yeah, will do. Next update will be on Tuesday when I talk to the Toyota Rep directly.

You seem pretty level headed but I am going to say this anyway.

When dealing with this:

Remain calm. You can be firm and profession without being a duck (replace u with I). The reps deal with this stuff all the time since it is their job and probably get sick of people screaming and threatening them. The old adage "you catch more flys with honey than with vinager" exists for a reason.

Tell your story and include all the facts but don't embellish or put forth theories as if they are fact. We have a theory going here but that is all it is. Saying "but the guys on the forum said..." Is not going to win the debate for you. As was said already write out the time line of events as accurate as you can but stick to what actually happened not what you (or we) think happened. In this case the events really speak for themselves. Remember that contrary to popular belief it is not the cost of the repairs that Toyota is worried about here ( they probably pay less per minute for toilet paper world wide) but the fact that they are defending themselves against fraudulent claims. If they feel it is legitimate they will authorize the repair in a heart beat.

Be very careful what you say here or other social media. So far you have been fine I think but they have legal staff that could twist even the most innocent comment into something else. If things go bad and they really want they will find and use anything you posted on a public media so don't tip your hand. We had one guy that blew his engine and had bragged on here and Facebook about his frequent track days and the fact that he had miss shifted a down shift and over revved his car several times. Guess what, he lost.

Be prepared for them to say no and do not let it push you over the edge. If you have a lawyer have their contact info ready so if declined you can calmly provide it to the Rep. They have access to huge legal departments but usually do not want the publicity that such a thing can cause. If nothing else you may be able to negotiate a compromise with them (pay for parts but no labour or something) even if they say no but that will not go on the table if you run around screaming lawsuit.

Sorry if you knew all this but we have seen people on here win and lose such claims and the ones that lost usually did the complete opposite of what I just said!

[wbradley]

The key piece of info that the dealer and manufacturer will not overlook is the indication the engine had aftermarket/bolt ons at some point prior to the warranty claim. What specifically was the indication? Heat stress damage? The car had no coolant so what convincing detail of the evidence indicates bolt ons? What about the tune? Does it appear to havd been modified? That is detectable in many cases AFAIK.

If the mechanic claims there was zero coolant in the block, when did it disappear? Would thd OP not have a check engine or temperature light prior? The liquid cannot disappear spontaneously. Again, would Techstream find this info?

This might just boil down to get a lawyer or just pay for it. Credible answers here can easily determine recourse, as advised by a legal professional.

Is the onus on the motorist to prove Toyota liable or on Toyota to prove the motorist liable? I suspect the latter, in which case is the evidence they provided sufficient grounds for warranty denial?

[Summerwolf]

You bought the car with an aftermarket warranty. Someone should be paying for this mess either way. Just keep fighting for it.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by Brandond15

Oh trust me, I've told myself that so many times since this happened lol. Never getting a used car ever again!
.

Actually I believe the opposite, and have been buying used cars (toyotas even) for a while.

I believe it is BETTER to buy a used car providing you follow these rules:
1 - Buy a used CERTIFIED car from the dealer that the car belongs to. This has resulted in me getting an extended warranty above & beyond what the car originally comes with.

2 - CHECK the maintenance history with the dealer. If the car has no problems (or minor ones) you are good.

I believe this is the best way to buy a car for two reasons:
A - You are knocking off that initial depreciation that comes the minute you drive a brand new car off the lot
B - You avoid cars that have a problem called Infant Mortality. I prefer my cars to have been tested for at least a few thousand miles.

Example: I see cases of people on this forum that bought a brand new 2013 BRZ and have replaced the engine more than once with less that 10k miles. They got a lemon right off the showroom floor.
I bought a used 2013 BRZ from the subaru dealer with 5k miles on it and NO warranty work history. It now has over 40k with no problems other than the clicking rear wheels and one front cover oil leak (all fixed under warranty).
I now have a 7year 100k powertrain warranty from subaru (not some third party warranty).

I have never bought a brand new car except a 2013 VW Passat TDI.....

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by wbradley

The key piece of info that the dealer and manufacturer will not overlook is the indication the engine had aftermarket/bolt ons at some point prior to the warranty claim. What specifically was the indication? Heat stress damage? The car had no coolant so what convincing detail of the evidence indicates bolt ons? What about the tune? Does it appear to havd been modified? That is detectable in many cases AFAIK.

If the mechanic claims there was zero coolant in the block, when did it disappear? Would thd OP not have a check engine or temperature light prior? The liquid cannot disappear spontaneously. Again, would Techstream find this info?

This might just boil down to get a lawyer or just pay for it. Credible answers here can easily determine recourse, as advised by a legal professional.

Is the onus on the motorist to prove Toyota liable or on Toyota to prove the motorist liable? I suspect the latter, in which case is the evidence they provided sufficient grounds for warranty denial?

As far as I know, it seems like when the previous owner had the car and his engine blew, there was no indication of aftermarket parts causing it which is why they covered it under warranty. There is written proof that says "Aftermarket parts must be removed prior to any work being done" but they never say what aftermarket parts specifically.

Now, that message wasn't anywhere on the service history until after he got the engine replaced. So prior to that there was nothing about the previous owner having aftermarket parts.

When I got the car though, it was completely stock (other than appearance modifications like Seibon Carbon Fiber Hood and Megan Racing Lowering Springs). I haven't changed anything myself. I have the car just like when I bought it.

Oh and another thing... When I'm driving, I constantly look down at my temp gauge because that's how my previous car got a blown coolant seal. I now always look at my temp gauge to make sure it's all good. Especially when parking my car at my house, I look at the temperature before turning it off to see where it's at. I have never seen it move above the middle part where it always sits.

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Actually I believe the opposite, and have been buying used cars (toyotas even) for a while.

I believe it is BETTER to buy a used car providing you follow these rules:
1 - Buy a used CERTIFIED car from the dealer that the car belongs to. This has resulted in me getting an extended warranty above & beyond what the car originally comes with.

2 - CHECK the maintenance history with the dealer. If the car has no problems (or minor ones) you are good.

I believe this is the best way to buy a car for two reasons:
A - You are knocking off that initial depreciation that comes the minute you drive a brand new car off the lot
B - You avoid cars that have a problem called Infant Mortality. I prefer my cars to have been tested for at least a few thousand miles.

Example: I see cases of people on this forum that bought a brand new 2013 BRZ and have replaced the engine more than once with less that 10k miles. They got a lemon right off the showroom floor.
I bought a used 2013 BRZ from the subaru dealer with 5k miles on it and NO warranty work history. It now has over 40k with no problems other than the clicking rear wheels and one front cover oil leak (all fixed under warranty).
I now have a 7year 100k powertrain warranty from subaru (not some third party warranty).

I have never bought a brand new car except a 2013 VW Passat TDI.....

Yeah that's true. With Certified Pre-Owned you at least know it was checked by the dealership and it should be good. And the extended warranty would come directly from them so it would be much more valid than third party ones.

[Brandond15]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

You seem pretty level headed but I am going to say this anyway.

When dealing with this:

Remain calm. You can be firm and profession without being a duck (replace u with I). The reps deal with this stuff all the time since it is their job and probably get sick of people screaming and threatening them. The old adage "you catch more flys with honey than with vinager" exists for a reason.

Tell your story and include all the facts but don't embellish or put forth theories as if they are fact. We have a theory going here but that is all it is. Saying "but the guys on the forum said..." Is not going to win the debate for you. As was said already write out the time line of events as accurate as you can but stick to what actually happened not what you (or we) think happened. In this case the events really speak for themselves. Remember that contrary to popular belief it is not the cost of the repairs that Toyota is worried about here ( they probably pay less per minute for toilet paper world wide) but the fact that they are defending themselves against fraudulent claims. If they feel it is legitimate they will authorize the repair in a heart beat.

Be very careful what you say here or other social media. So far you have been fine I think but they have legal staff that could twist even the most innocent comment into something else. If things go bad and they really want they will find and use anything you posted on a public media so don't tip your hand. We had one guy that blew his engine and had bragged on here and Facebook about his frequent track days and the fact that he had miss shifted a down shift and over revved his car several times. Guess what, he lost.

Be prepared for them to say no and do not let it push you over the edge. If you have a lawyer have their contact info ready so if declined you can calmly provide it to the Rep. They have access to huge legal departments but usually do not want the publicity that such a thing can cause. If nothing else you may be able to negotiate a compromise with them (pay for parts but no labour or something) even if they say no but that will not go on the table if you run around screaming lawsuit.

Sorry if you knew all this but we have seen people on here win and lose such claims and the ones that lost usually did the complete opposite of what I just said!

Yeah, thanks for the info! Every time I had mentioned a theory to the dealership it was only based on actual facts. The only thing I told them was "Ok, so you guys are telling me that it was hydrolock, yet there was no coolant in the engine, but it seems like you're overlooking the first problem I came across with which was the P0203 code. Could there be anything there?" And at first they didn't even look into it but now that the Toyota rep is coming down, I will make sure to mention the P0203 code I got at first and make sure they actually look into it. I will be writing down all of the events that happened as well so I can remember it all when speaking to the Toyota Rep.

[Brandond15]

Update:

I spoke to the Toyota Representative today and they're just telling me that because of previous history (the previous owner) they won't cover under warranty. I asked what exactly happened to my engine and all they have are theories. They say they don't know for sure what happened. They adivsed me to speak to the dealership I bought it from since I did purchase an extended warranty with them and they should cover it.

I went to the dealership where I bought it from and spoke to them and they gave my extended warranty a call and they'll let me know a soon as they get a response from the warranty (they said it could be until Friday) so I'm back in the waiting game.