American Drivers Suck

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by chaoskaze

Hey that's why dashcam has become a factory option.

Tcoat, I think canada is among the best for driving.........or it used to be before the yellow invasion from china. (Which i'm part of... i guess. ) I used to think my dad drive crazy till i saw how ppl from china drives.

Do not kid yourself we have just as many bad drivers per capita as anyplace else. Our capita is just smaller so it doesn't seem as bad. Go drive through Toronto or Montreal if you don't believe me. Race or country of origin has little to do with it either. Some people just plan suck.

It is funny that you of all people mention driving here because just half an hour ago we were talking around the campfire about our last trip to Vegas. I was telling our friends (yes I have real solid bodied friends) about how easy it actually was to drive around there. I had heard so many horror stories but decided to rent a car last trip. It was a price of cake and I told everybody I liked driving there better than Toronto. Now mind you I just don't care if people do dumb shit while driving and will simply forget about them as soon as they or I move away so maybe the whole bad drivers thing is simply a state of mind more then a solid fact.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ogrowup

I meant US, but my experiences in Canada are they are very fast and stay oiut of the left lane. Driving in Mexico, OMG it is the craziest place to drive... 4 lanes of traffic on a two lane road.

Again not always. I was stuck behind some dude going 1/10 of a mph faster than the right lane for about 40 miles just yesterday.

[extrashaky]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

How the hell can you discuss bad drivers without laws being part of the equation?

Because not everything that is against the law is rude or dangerous, and not everything that is rude or dangerous is against the law.

For example, in most places it's not against the law to block someone entering the highway from a ramp when you could get over or slow down to let them in. It's rude, and in some places it could cause an accident that could get someone killed. But if that happened, it wouldn't be your fault, despite the fact that you could have avoided it.

On the other end, speed limits really do have little to do with safety in the US. Do you even know how speed limits are set here? When a state or local government wants to set or change a speed limit, they conduct a "speed survey." The speed survey involves putting a speed detection device on the side of the road to determine the natural average speed of traffic on that roadway. Most people will gravitate toward that natural average, and the wanton speeders and grannies who can't find the accelerator will be averaged out. Then the speed limit is supposed to be set near that average.

But those speed detection devices also include a big display that says, "YOUR SPEED:" and reads out the numbers. Those displays affect the behavior of the drivers. Enough drivers slow down when they see those numbers that the average skews downward. It's usually about 10 MPH less than normal. And that's where they set the speed limit (which is why most people end up feeling most comfortable about 10 over).

Then, when they remove the device and put up the speed limit signs, everyone who is driving at the natural speed is "breaking the law."

Now why would they do that? Is it for safety? Of course not. The safest speed on the road is the natural speed of that road. People will naturally accelerate to that speed. People who drive slower than the natural speed increase the number of vehicle interactions, thus also increasing the likelihood of accidents. If ten people are in a group driving exactly 70, nobody is interacting with anyone else. If you throw in one guy going 60, you jump from zero interactions to at least ten, but probably more like 50 interactions as people interact with the guy going 60 and also with each other as they slow down and speed up. Thus you drastically increase the likelihood one of those interactions will become physical.

If not safety, why artificially decrease the limit? The answer is revenue. Speed limits are set low enough to maximize fine revenue without angering people enough to vote the incumbents out of office. State and local governments actually budget for that revenue.

So don't try to tell me that you can't have a discussion about rude or reckless drivers without discussing laws. Laws are mostly irrelevant to this subject, especially considering that the ones that are enforced most are the speed laws (which are in place for revenue rather than safety) rather than reckless driving laws (which cops are rarely around to witness and rarely cite until after someone causes a collision).

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Radar detector is a device with no other purpose other than to circumvent the law.

And a spoon can only be used for soup.

I'm rarely the fastest thing on the road, and in cities I'm usually driving right on the speed limit. I still use the radar detector, because it serves as an alarm when I might have drifted up a little unintentionally because of the conditions of the road. If you drift up 5 miles above the speed limit going down a hill, do you deserve a ticket for that? If you drive into a speed trap where the signs dropping the limit are hidden, should you not avail yourself of a warning? If you unintentionally drift up to the natural speed of the road because, psychologically, that's the safest speed at which to be travelling, should you be fined?

In my territory, there are plenty of places where the speed limit is actually not even clear because road crews will come along and take the signs down without ever replacing them. Cops will set up there anyway. Good luck trying to explain to a judge that you couldn't be speeding because there was no speed limit sign.

And there are a lot of small towns out here that drop the speed limit as you approach but hide the signs behind bushes to preserve their revenue stream. More than once I've had the radar detector go off and cause me to be extra observant as I enter town, and sure enough, there's that sign behind that tree where I would have missed it if not for the heads up.

So no, it's not just for breaking the law. And even if it were, it wouldn't be any of your business, because in most places in the US it's our right to be able to detect when we're under electronic surveillance.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

My point was never intended to say peopl are hypocritical just that even the worst driver on the road thinks they are fine and it is everybody else that sucks. They are oviously wrong but that is what they think.

Except that you didn't apply that to the worst driver on the road. You generalized it to all American drivers.

[saj]

I agree with OP. I've been in major cities all over the world(from some of the wealthiest and poorest countries), and US drivers are still absolute dogshit despite all the advancements we have over other others. The US has one of the highest populations of automobile drivers and yet we still put relatively very little into our infrastructure and driver training/education. Granted most poorer countries' roads are just just mayhem without lanes and/or seemingly without road laws, but for the sake of argument we shouldn't compare cities like Bangkok or New Dehli to London or Chicago.

[guybo]

IMHO the #1 problem with driving in the US are the police. When I am alone on the highway doing 80 in a 65, no one is endangered. At all. Anywhere in the world even theoretically. It is 100% safe for me, in my new sports car to go 80 MPH on the highway with no one else around. AND YET, I have to be paranoid that I'll get a ticket. The reason being that it's easy for a cop to give a ticket for 80 in a 65 and it brings in revenue to the local PD.

But if I am tailgating- which is NEVER safe and endangers me and the person in front of me, it is almost impossible to get a ticket. If I do the speed limit in the left lane and cause a traffic jam, I cannot get a ticket even though it causes a dangerous condition behind. There are so many dangerous stupid things I can do and can't get a ticket doing. But cops are mostly stupid. I offer no apologies for saying that even if there are cops on here. Stop being a dope if you want to be thought to be anything other than a moron.

If the cops enforced laws that cause dangerous driving, the dangerous driving will lessen. If they stop hassling people for doing things that are not dangerous and concentrate on the dangerous stuff, traffic incidents will diminish in number and severity. Yes, I put this mostly on the police.

[dtrop]

I've watched so many "fail compilations" regarding traffic accidents and the majority of them aren't from the U.S.


there's over 320 million people in the U.S, you can't fault every one of us, but yes, there are a lot of bad drivers. Yet, there are bad drivers all of the world.

[saj]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

snip

The city has been conducting a speed survey in my neighborhood along various roads, and rather than drive as they normally would, the vast majority of drivers all drastically slow down when they see the electric board light up. I don't think they know how speed surveys work, and are further perpetuating one of the problems by slowing down and skewing the survey results. It's kind of funny in a way because after the speed survey is completed it will legally allow law enforcement to set up speed traps along those roads, and then all the drivers who unknowingly slowed down for the survey will be annoyed and complain about police giving them tickets for going 5 mph over the limit.

[stevesnj]

Jersey drivers are the best drivers. Period! You can close the thread now.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Jersey drivers are the best drivers. Period! You can close the thread now.

Only until they get to their exit.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Because not everything that is against the law is rude or dangerous, and not everything that is rude or dangerous is against the law.

For example, in most places it's not against the law to block someone entering the highway from a ramp when you could get over or slow down to let them in. It's rude, and in some places it could cause an accident that could get someone killed. But if that happened, it wouldn't be your fault, despite the fact that you could have avoided it.

On the other end, speed limits really do have little to do with safety in the US. Do you even know how speed limits are set here? When a state or local government wants to set or change a speed limit, they conduct a "speed survey." The speed survey involves putting a speed detection device on the side of the road to determine the natural average speed of traffic on that roadway. Most people will gravitate toward that natural average, and the wanton speeders and grannies who can't find the accelerator will be averaged out. Then the speed limit is supposed to be set near that average.

But those speed detection devices also include a big display that says, "YOUR SPEED:" and reads out the numbers. Those displays affect the behavior of the drivers. Enough drivers slow down when they see those numbers that the average skews downward. It's usually about 10 MPH less than normal. And that's where they set the speed limit (which is why most people end up feeling most comfortable about 10 over).

Then, when they remove the device and put up the speed limit signs, everyone who is driving at the natural speed is "breaking the law."

Now why would they do that? Is it for safety? Of course not. The safest speed on the road is the natural speed of that road. People will naturally accelerate to that speed. People who drive slower than the natural speed increase the number of vehicle interactions, thus also increasing the likelihood of accidents. If ten people are in a group driving exactly 70, nobody is interacting with anyone else. If you throw in one guy going 60, you jump from zero interactions to at least ten, but probably more like 50 interactions as people interact with the guy going 60 and also with each other as they slow down and speed up. Thus you drastically increase the likelihood one of those interactions will become physical.

If not safety, why artificially decrease the limit? The answer is revenue. Speed limits are set low enough to maximize fine revenue without angering people enough to vote the incumbents out of office. State and local governments actually budget for that revenue.

So don't try to tell me that you can't have a discussion about rude or reckless drivers without discussing laws. Laws are mostly irrelevant to this subject, especially considering that the ones that are enforced most are the speed laws (which are in place for revenue rather than safety) rather than reckless driving laws (which cops are rarely around to witness and rarely cite until after someone causes a collision).



And a spoon can only be used for soup.

I'm rarely the fastest thing on the road, and in cities I'm usually driving right on the speed limit. I still use the radar detector, because it serves as an alarm when I might have drifted up a little unintentionally because of the conditions of the road. If you drift up 5 miles above the speed limit going down a hill, do you deserve a ticket for that? If you drive into a speed trap where the signs dropping the limit are hidden, should you not avail yourself of a warning? If you unintentionally drift up to the natural speed of the road because, psychologically, that's the safest speed at which to be travelling, should you be fined?

In my territory, there are plenty of places where the speed limit is actually not even clear because road crews will come along and take the signs down without ever replacing them. Cops will set up there anyway. Good luck trying to explain to a judge that you couldn't be speeding because there was no speed limit sign.

And there are a lot of small towns out here that drop the speed limit as you approach but hide the signs behind bushes to preserve their revenue stream. More than once I've had the radar detector go off and cause me to be extra observant as I enter town, and sure enough, there's that sign behind that tree where I would have missed it if not for the heads up.

So no, it's not just for breaking the law. And even if it were, it wouldn't be any of your business, because in most places in the US it's our right to be able to detect when we're under electronic surveillance.



Except that you didn't apply that to the worst driver on the road. You generalized it to all American drivers.

Still hooked on my speed comment eh? Can't grasp the concept that I was just using it as a simple easy to understand example of how people feel the rules should not apply? In fact you support most of my statement with your parrinoid and self rightous rambling.
I clearly said that it was even the worst that think they are good not all.
You seem to read an awful lot into some simple statements on my viewpoint.

I give up. Debating with you is a waste as you simply read what you want into every word and oviously have some serious authority issues. Yep all the cow are bad and they are only trying to screw over the honest citizen that should be able to do as they please. Since all the laws and rules are only for other people.

Good day sir I will not be responding so have fun twisting these comments around to your fantasy world.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by stevesnj

Jersey drivers are the best drivers. Period! You can close the thread now.

I will confirm or repute this statement in two days as I drive through Jersey.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by saj

The city has been conducting a speed survey in my neighborhood along various roads, and rather than drive as they normally would, the vast majority of drivers all drastically slow down when they see the electric board light up. I don't think they know how speed surveys work, and are further perpetuating one of the problems by slowing down and skewing the survey results. It's kind of funny in a way because after the speed survey is completed it will legally allow law enforcement to set up speed traps along those roads, and then all the drivers who unknowingly slowed down for the survey will be annoyed and complain about police giving them tickets for going 5 mph over the limit.

I always try to get the highest score when I see those things.

[Impureclient]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I give up. Debating with you is a waste as you simply read what you want into every word and obviously have some serious authority issues. Yep all the cow are bad and they are only trying to screw over the honest citizen that should be able to do as they please. Since all the laws and rules are only for other people.

Good day sir I will not be responding so have fun twisting these comments around to your fantasy world.

You have sex with bad cows and have fantasies about screwing honest citizens!

[jawn]

What the hell is happening here?!