Should I trade in my 370z?

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Actually, both of these are wrong... Most of those cars ceased production because EPA standards became such a big deal from the mid 90s - 2000ish.

Also, you say the RX-7 ceased production because it was unreliable and fuel thirsty. All rotary engines are unreliable and fuel thirsty.... The RX-8 which is the predecessor to the RX-7 also uses an unreliable, fuel thirsty engine.

But those sports cars were well overpriced. Mid-30k range in 1995... That's a lotta cheddar. My current Z cost less than that brand new in 2010

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

Being that I own the car, have actually driven it hard, I feel fine with its handling at this girth and would simply enjoy more grunt, more torque, more acceleration.

You still don't get it. Reducing weight is equivalent to increasing power/torque, it gives what you want: "MORE ACCELERATION". The same power/torque in a lighter weight car will absolutely FEEL like MORE, as it will accelerate faster.

The car has magnificent grip.

And if it weighed less, it would grip even better. Adding power doesn't help that at all.

Sure, it's not as connected as an S2k/Miata/FRS, but it's a hell of a lot of fun to corner in.

And at 2800 lb., it would be MORE fun.
For the reasons above, I'd MUCH rather have lighter-weight...

Also, since you're fond of nitpicking semantics, I was trying to close our Power/Weight argument rather than prolong it, which you've enjoyed doing. I disagreed that they should solve the issue with weight savings.

That's not what you said, and your words in this post still betray a lack of understanding regarding what reducing weight does for acceleration.
[edit]Then again, I think I may have been reading you wrong. Your happy with the car's weight, just want more power. OK...

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

Actually, both of these are wrong... Most of those cars ceased production because EPA standards became such a big deal from the mid 90s - 2000ish.

If the cars had been selling, they would have evolved them to meet new standards.

Also, you say the RX-7 ceased production because it was unreliable and fuel thirsty. All rotary engines are unreliable and fuel thirsty....

So my point stands.

The RX-8 which is the predecessor to the RX-7 also uses an unreliable, fuel thirsty engine.

Less unreliable, less fuel-thirsty, still too much so for the market to support it. BTW, the RX-8 is not the "predecessor" to the RX-7!

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

You still don't get it. Reducing weight is equivalent to increasing power/torque, it gives what you want: "MORE ACCELERATION". The same power/torque in a lighter weight car will absolutely FEEL like MORE, as it will accelerate faster.

And if it weighed less, it would grip even better. Adding power doesn't help that at all.

And at 2800 lb., it would be MORE fun.


That's not what you said, and your words in this post still betray a lack of understanding regarding what reducing weight does for acceleration.

No, I understand completely. I'm completely happy with the handling of the vehicle as specified right now at 3300lbs. They do not need to put it on a diet.

I simply want more grunt, more power. Don't mess with the handling characteristics of the vehicle.

[shadoquad]

I admit that perhaps I was a bit too gruff, and I definitely took this thread off topic.

Again, I apologize for wearing my Z fanboi hat.

[ToxicSneakers]

If you want anything, do something.

IMO cars, like women, are of two kinds: take over payments or bigger, better deal. There is no finish to a serial relationship, just keep on keeping on already (ruck up, sojer).

[Jordo!]

Originally Posted by Z.Tune

... But other than that, nothing beats the 370. Yes, the FRS does handles great, but not yet to compare to the 370...

Long words short, so far, the FRS needs to be better to beat the 370, IMO. I KEEP MY Z, period.

Yep. :happy0180:

And you arrived at the same conclusion of just about everyone else: "Looks great, handles great, needs more torque".

Sigh. Sure hope they bring out that Gazoo version...

Anyway, there's a mod you can do to improve clutch feel -- search the370Z.com DIY section for it. Other than that, get some stiffer springs, beefier sways, and a few extra chassis braces and you can get the Z to feel VERY go-kart like. Add better pads and SS lines, and it will stop on a dime. Do both, it will feel hundreds of pounds lighter -- maybe not quite as nimble as the FR-S, but like night and day from stock.

[fatoni]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

False.

can you elaborate on that? im trying to think of what you could be talking about but coming up short

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by justaquestion

False.

Technically, less weight on the same tires does give less actual grip in terms of the forces involved, but since the grip/load curve is nonlinear, losing 15% weight loses you something LESS than 15% in absolute grip. Grip per weight improves with less weight, hence perceived grip (cornering g's, braking distances) improve. "It would grip even better" is technically a little nebulous, but if you consider more grip per weight to be "better", IMO it's not inaccurate.

Adding power doesn't help grip, but it certainly does help lap times.

So anyway, I stand by both comments, which do you think is false and why?

[ZDan]

[quote=Z.Tune;257481]

Originally Posted by Jordo!

Really, the only drawback on the Z is that it could be lighter. Well, spend some money improving the brakes (better pads, SS lines) and bracing the chassis and it will feel easily 200 lbs lighter.

Originally Posted by Jordo!

get some stiffer springs, beefier sways, and a few extra chassis braces and you can get the Z to feel VERY go-kart like. Add better pads and SS lines, and it will stop on a dime. Do both, it will feel hundreds of pounds lighter -- maybe not quite as nimble as the FR-S, but like night and day from stock.

Different brakes certainly won't make the Z feel lighter, it's not like you drive the car and don't notice the mass until you've faded the brakes! You feel the mass from the get-go. Faded brakes are just a symptom that shows up sooner or later when driven hard (agree it shouldn't be a big deal to address, but still a curious oversight in the car's development).
[edit]OK, maybe you mean that higher c.f. pads with more pad will give better braking response with less pedal effort, making the car feel less massive under braking?

Adding stiffer suspension and chassis bracing won't make the 370Z feel like a lightweight either. It will improve handling and responsiveness, but even with full-on track optimized suspension, there's no disguising mass.

To wit: An NA Miata is softly-sprung and the chassis is a wet noodle, but it feels very lightweight! Ditto my 240Z (well, it started out softly sprung, still soft for track work).

A stock 370Z has a MUCH stiffer chassis and MUCH tauter suspension than a stock 240Z or NA Miata, still feels WAY more massive than those cars.

The FR-S/BRZ sorta split the difference between 370Z weight and NA Miata/240Z weight, but they have a much stiffer chassis and suspension than the Miata or 240. Stock for stock, Toyobarus are going to feel a lot lighter-weight than the 370Z. Any reduction in the *feel* of the mass of the 370Z via suspension/chassis mods could be equally applied to the FR-S/BRZ to make it *feel* lighter still (though I still contend that stiffer doesn't really feel that much lighter to me, particularly on the street).

370Z is a great car, it's a somewhat fast car, but IMO *if* you want a sports car that feels lightweight and more engaging to drive every single time you drive it, on the street or at the track, the FR-S/BRZ are a better choice.


I'm probably overposting in this thread, but as a long-time Z-head, the 350Z and 370Z were both bitter disappointments to me. A return to 240Z ideals was promised and emphatically *not* delivered, so I'm still all butt-hurt over that

[shadoquad]

Originally Posted by ZDan

370Z is a great car, it's a somewhat fast car, but IMO *if* you want a sports car that feels lightweight and more engaging to drive every single time you drive it, on the street or at the track, the FR-S/BRZ are a better choice.

It is a faster car than the FR-S/BRZ, stock for stock.

I agree with a lot of what you say when it comes to driving feel. Now, the Mustang GT will spank both of them on any speed course. There is always something faster. For me, the Z has the amount of power and sports car feel that I like. Get in a Mustang and drive that tank. Much less sports car response. Even worse if you drive a Camaro or Challenger. The Z still feels compact and tight. But if you prefer the more responsive, lighter car, there is nothing wrong with that. I drove a 2000 Miata and loved the feel and the corner carving. But I've had a lot more fun in my Z. The added weight also makes the Z a more pleasant tourer for when I'm done playing. Again, just personal opinion.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

It is a faster car than the FR-S/BRZ, stock for stock.

Oh yeah, it's a lot faster. ~10mph in the 1/4, should be no contest on a road course, either.

I called the 370Z "somewhat fast" because my RX-7 street car is upwards of 25mph faster in the 1/4

I agree with a lot of what you say when it comes to driving feel. Now, the Mustang GT will spank both of them on any speed course. There is always something faster.

Yup.

For me, the Z has the amount of power and sports car feel that I like. Get in a Mustang and drive that tank. Much less sports car response. Even worse if you drive a Camaro or Challenger. The Z still feels compact and tight.

Absolutely.

But if you prefer the more responsive, lighter car, there is nothing wrong with that. I drove a 2000 Miata and loved the feel and the corner carving. But I've had a lot more fun in my Z. The added weight also makes the Z a more pleasant tourer for when I'm done playing. Again, just personal opinion.

Yeah, personal preferences will differ! I really want a DD that's about the same size/weight/real-world performance (i.e., not redlining every shift) as my S2000, but with a fixed roof and 2+2 utility. The FR-S/BRZ is pretty much it. Unfortunately the wife needs a new car sooner than I do...

[SUB-FT86]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

It is a faster car than the FR-S/BRZ, stock for stock.

I agree with a lot of what you say when it comes to driving feel. Now, the Mustang GT will spank both of them on any speed course. There is always something faster. For me, the Z has the amount of power and sports car feel that I like. Get in a Mustang and drive that tank. Much less sports car response. Even worse if you drive a Camaro or Challenger. The Z still feels compact and tight. But if you prefer the more responsive, lighter car, there is nothing wrong with that. I drove a 2000 Miata and loved the feel and the corner carving. But I've had a lot more fun in my Z. The added weight also makes the Z a more pleasant tourer for when I'm done playing. Again, just personal opinion.

The Z never felt heavy to me too. If anything it feels a bit too wide but IMO it felt about 3000 lbs flat which is not bad. I love the Z.

[Isamu]

Originally Posted by shadoquad

ZDan, we have differing opinions. I respect yours, but disagree.


Difference of opinion. I'd rather them increase the power so it can run with Mustang GT's.

The GTR was a technological marvel when it was released in 2009. It is their halo car. It gets people into dealerships, similar to a ZR1 or a 911 Turbo. More people come to look at them and buy some boring Altima than people who actually buy them. And that's the point of a halo car. I think the GTR was a definite right move for Nissan. A four-seat, two ton AWD behemoth that could lap the Nurburgring in the same time as a 911. How sick is that?


I didn't say I wouldn't like it. I just don't see it as a smart move. Part of the reality of the hatch market is that people are buying them for versatility, including a drivetrain perceived as being more safe in inclement weather, which necessitates FWD or AWD. Possibly, there are other reasons behind this, but that's how I understand it. Enter a RWD hatch into it, and it might be easily passed over for FWD/AWD counterparts.

ok... opinion noted.

Sometimes vacant markets were vacated for a reason. I don't know what the demand is for a RWD hatch. You might be right, there might be a silent majority clamoring for them. But it would be quite a risky move. Toyobaru's move was less risky. The Miata was already there and thriving in that market.

I don't mean to ride your nuts bro, but I agree 100%