Which lightweight N/A V6 or H6 to choose?

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Because, unlike you, I actually own the car, and have a full shop to work on it. Access to all these engines, you know, boring research stuff.

It was a serious question about the engine height, not a sarcastic one. I was asking how you know that the overall height of an LFX will be OK. "I measured" would have been an appropriate answer.

Originally Posted by Spartarus

Keep ignoring the advice of other people. It'll get you far in life.

You disgust me.

What the f**k? Read the damn thread title. I asked a simple question about a which N/A V6 or H6 so I don't expect to see "put an LS in it" or "Supercharge the FA20" or "Swap another 4 cylinder into it and turbo that".

I started the thread with two engines in mind, the EZ30 and the 2GR. It was suggested to look at the LFX, now I'm considering that. How is that ignoring advice???

Converting the LFX sump to front sump would be an absolute walk in the park.

Doing any crazy crossmember and steering rack position conversion is a ridiculously stupid idea to acheive that engine fitment.

[Spartarus]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

It was a serious question about the engine height, not a sarcastic one. I was asking how you know that the overall height of an LFX will be OK. "I measured" would have been an appropriate answer.



What the f**k? Read the damn thread title. I asked a simple question about a which N/A V6 or H6 so I don't expect to see "put an LS in it" or "Supercharge the FA20" or "Swap another 4 cylinder into it and turbo that".

I started the thread with two engines in mind, the EZ30 and the 2GR. It was suggested to look at the LFX, now I'm considering that. How is that ignoring advice???

Converting the LFX sump to front sump would be an absolute walk in the park.

Doing any crazy crossmember and steering rack position conversion is a ridiculously stupid idea to acheive that engine fitment.

I'm going to address everything you said. I did in every post, despite the fact that you continually ignore large parts of other posts.

People made dozens of points in the first 2 pages. You either ignored or dismissed every point or recommendation without even the beginnings of a complete explanation.

People suggested alternatives to your idea because you failed to adequately justify it. Adequate justification does not mean proving it's the best idea in the world, just illustrating that you have sufficient understanding to provide sound reasoning in defense of your own idea.

Regardless, people dropped contrary suggestions when you refused them. Arguments only started when you started to assert that those options were somehow inferior.

On page 3, you said "Now I'm sure I want the EZ30," yet addressed none of the concerns or advice people raised, except for aft placement, which you acknowledged you already knew in your first post. You continued to assert that the engine would "bolt right up" to the transmission, failing to acknowledge, despite being told, that the starter is on the wrong side. It will require (relatively easy) modification. Unless it's a roll-start only car. Then, on page 6, you denied ever being set on that engine at all.

That's what I mean by ignoring advice.

You continually make inconsistent assertions about your extensive history of complicated engine projects, yet you seem to profoundly lack the knowledge to have completed or tuned any of them.

Your assertions about VVT confute any actual experience with tuning engines, with or without VVT.

Warning, sarcasm ahead.

It's a good thing you're so knowledgeable about suspension. You had many keen observations about the differences in those pictures.

Silly me, the GT86 bay must be exactly like a Miata. Definitely comparable.

Surely somebody would have to be "ridiculously stupid" to build a Subaru chassis with MacPherson Strut front suspension and a front-steer spindle? What kind of ridiculously stupid OEM engineer would build that system in every car for decades? And what kind of ridiculously stupid layman would submit themselves to moving a manual steering rack.... Several inches! Gasp! Not like all the electric power steering components are located in the cabin, leaving the rack easy to move and modify. That would just be silly.

Furthermore, what kind of a$$hole welding custom engine and transmission mounts would submit themselves to making a crossmember. Showoff. Bet he just bought that welder.

Go ahead, what's involved in the "ridiculously easy" task of moving the pan to front-sump? Will the earlier front-sump GM HFV6 pans bolt up? In fact, if you take the maximum relief from the pan, cut the crossmember down until it's flush with the steering rack (reinforcing it, of course) will you have the height available? Can you go low enough without moving the crossmember and the rack? It's a good thing you measured the engine bay and prospective driveline angle of the GT86 you own before you ranted about the stupidity of an idea. F*ck it, cowled hoods are the next big thing for the GT86! Ah, who cares, that engine is simple! You can modify structural components with no consequences! It's not like a simple component like the timing chain cover has a 5-step tightening process involving 28 fasteners and torque-angle tightening control...

Of course, you know lots about torque-angle, you've built many engines. You own a BMW. You design better pistons than Mahle in your dad's f*cking shed. In your sleep.

Of course, there are many aftermarket ECU's that will allow you to run the LFX's direct injection. They're cheap and plentiful, like the engine. In fact, all of them will plug-and-play with the GT86 CAN BUS and play nice with vestigial, unnecessary systems like the Airbags, ABS, Electric power steering, traction control, gauges, smart key, and fuel pump. Oh wait. None of that is true.

/sarcasm.

/post.

/thread.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Spartarus

I'm going to address everything you said. I did in every post, despite the fact that you continually ignore large parts of other posts.

People made dozens of points in the first 2 pages. You either ignored or dismissed every point or recommendation without even the beginnings of a complete explanation.

People suggested alternatives to your idea because you failed to adequately justify it. Adequate justification does not mean proving it's the best idea in the world, just illustrating that you have sufficient understanding to provide sound reasoning in defense of your own idea.

Regardless, people dropped contrary suggestions when you refused them. Arguments only started when you started to assert that those options were somehow inferior.

On page 3, you said "Now I'm sure I want the EZ30," yet addressed none of the concerns or advice people raised, except for aft placement, which you acknowledged you already knew in your first post. You continued to assert that the engine would "bolt right up" to the transmission, failing to acknowledge, despite being told, that the starter is on the wrong side. It will require (relatively easy) modification. Unless it's a roll-start only car. Then, on page 6, you denied ever being set on that engine at all.

That's what I mean by ignoring advice.

You continually make inconsistent assertions about your extensive history of complicated engine projects, yet you seem to profoundly lack the knowledge to have completed or tuned any of them.

Your assertions about VVT confute any actual experience with tuning engines, with or without VVT.

Warning, sarcasm ahead.

It's a good thing you're so knowledgeable about suspension. You had many keen observations about the differences in those pictures.

Silly me, the GT86 bay must be exactly like a Miata. Definitely comparable.

Surely somebody would have to be "ridiculously stupid" to build a Subaru chassis with MacPherson Strut front suspension and a front-steer spindle? What kind of ridiculously stupid OEM engineer would build that system in every car for decades? And what kind of ridiculously stupid layman would submit themselves to moving a manual steering rack.... Several inches! Gasp! Not like all the electric power steering components are located in the cabin, leaving the rack easy to move and modify. That would just be silly.

Furthermore, what kind of a$$hole welding custom engine and transmission mounts would submit themselves to making a crossmember. Showoff. Bet he just bought that welder.

Go ahead, what's involved in the "ridiculously easy" task of moving the pan to front-sump? Will the earlier front-sump GM HFV6 pans bolt up? In fact, if you take the maximum relief from the pan, cut the crossmember down until it's flush with the steering rack (reinforcing it, of course) will you have the height available? Can you go low enough without moving the crossmember and the rack? It's a good thing you measured the engine bay and prospective driveline angle of the GT86 you own before you ranted about the stupidity of an idea. F*ck it, cowled hoods are the next big thing for the GT86! Ah, who cares, that engine is simple! You can modify structural components with no consequences! It's not like a simple component like the timing chain cover has a 5-step tightening process involving 28 fasteners and torque-angle tightening control...

Of course, you know lots about torque-angle, you've built many engines. You own a BMW. You design better pistons than Mahle in your dad's f*cking shed. In your sleep.

Of course, there are many aftermarket ECU's that will allow you to run the LFX's direct injection. They're cheap and plentiful, like the engine. In fact, all of them will plug-and-play with the GT86 CAN BUS and play nice with vestigial, unnecessary systems like the Airbags, ABS, Electric power steering, traction control, gauges, smart key, and fuel pump. Oh wait. None of that is true.

/sarcasm.

/post.

/thread.

I don't need to justify the type of engine I want. My reasons are mine. I just asked if I'm missing any of that type of engine worth considering, which I was. The thread served its purpose.

I'll say again, there is no need to convert to a front-rack setup. Modding the oil pan is not hard.

I've always known about the need to flip the starter on the EZ30.

I have tuned VVT and seen first hand how awesome it works, as I've stated in a previous post already.

Obviously I wouldn't use aftermarket engine management for the LFX . It seems that the GM ECU runs properly just with the anti-theft disabled via flash but I'll obviously make further enquiries about having it work properly without other stuff from the donor body. People have made universal wiring harnesses for this engine, so it's obviously not a big challenge making it work. Again, I've already stated that factory ECU is fine as long as it's flash tuneable.

Yes, the dash and any CAN stuff that relies on the ECU will be a challenge, same as with most conversions into this car. I'm yet to do much in the way of research regarding best way sort it, but there are solutions available.

When did I claim to design better pistons than Mahle? I specified a custom dish shape. They don't offer off-the-shelf 89.5mm SR20 pistons with a wrist pin height to suit H22 rods and quench area that fully cover the stock quench pads do they?

I don't even get most of the rest of your sarcasm.

I know there are a lot of keyboard-warrior shit-talkers out there that are all talk, but it's completely wrong to assume everybody is, just because they are new to a platform and forum.

[XanRules]

Nobody is being a "keyboard warrior shit talker." You are proposing ideas that are not good ideas without a grasp of
1. why you are proposing them or
2. why they are not good ideas.

People are trying to help you. People who know more than you are explaining why they are not good ideas and asking why you are proposing them. People do not want you to waste time, money, or energy. You are in way over your head with a majorly pie in the sky idea and at this point you have two options:

1. Stop posting and get to work on this swap
2. Stop posting and do literally anything else

Notice that one of these options is not "continue to float half-baked, poorly-researched idea after half-baked, poorly-researched idea."

And in case you're wondering, yes, "Running an LFX in a BRZ with stock GM engine management with custom pistons and making sure it fits by somehow modifying an oil pan in a way that is physically impossible and assuming it will be more affordable, easier to tune, and more reliable than going forced induction or V8" is a half-baked, poorly-researched idea.

ALL THAT SAID: I've seen lots of people do stuff that online said was impossible, so knock yourself out, my dude

[bradsm87]

Custom pistons in an LFX? When on earth did I ever say that??? WTF?

I wasn't saying the haters on this thread are keyboatd warrior shit talkers, I'm saying don't assume that I'm a keyboard warrior shit talker who does not action car builds just because I'm new on THIS forum.

I do not want forced induction. I don't have to say why.

I do not want a V8. I don't have to say why.

I do not want to upgrade the FA20. I don't have to say why.

I know what I want for this car. I started this thread to ask about more V6 and H6 engine options. If you don't have an answer to my thread title, don't post.

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

I must have missed the part where you can't post about a potential future engine swap until you are ready to start it straight away. The attitude from most posters on this forum shocks me. It will happen in due course. I need to finish my 335i, build a shed, save a bit more money, buy an 86, cage it, do suspension and brake upgrades, then do the engine swap. I like to plan things out rather than just make fast decisions and regret later. So now you think I'm stuck on the LFX? LOL. Earlier, apparently I was stuck on the EZ30.

Originally Posted by bradsm87

No. My Dad sold his property with a big shed and hoist etc. so I've gotta get my own work area sorted before commiting to another project. It's HELL trying to work on my BMW in the open car port lol.

Chances of this happening just jumped to 99.9% never due to excuses. Ahhh the old dad selling workspace excuse, classic. Go build your BMW, an 86 build is far below your skill set.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Chances of this happening just jumped to 99.9% never due to excuses. Ahhh the old dad selling workspace excuse, classic. Go build your BMW, an 86 build is far below your skill set.

Nice constructive post again

Sorry again for breaking the "don't post unless immediately ready to start build" unwritten rule of ft86club. Ever heard of research?

[Summerwolf]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

Nice constructive post again

Sorry again for breaking the "don't post unless immediately ready to start build" unwritten rule of ft86club. Ever heard of research?

Yep.... which is exactly what lead a lot of members to giving the advice given.

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Summerwolf

Yep.... which is exactly what lead a lot of members to giving the advice given.

But they don't even know what I want from this car and how I want the power delivery. Sure, I could get similar with the FA20 + supercharger but as I said, I'd be tempted to constantly upgrade and fiddle as I have with previous cars and I want to do something N/A this time around anyway. I've already proven than the EZ30 + gearbox is, in fact noticeably lighter than the LS + gearbox, despite what the LS fanboys came in saying. There's also a "Canbus translator" from AGT Engineering nearly ready for sale that will be able to take care of either the EZ30 or the LFX in to the 86. Another thing is that due to the bank offset of the EZ30, it can be mounted further rearward on a RHD than on a LHD car.

Both the LFX and the EZ30 are very common and cheap here in Australia and so far, I have not found any reason why either wouldn't be a nice swap into an 86 and no major issues in doing so for either.

There is no rule where you need to have the same goals as others for a vehicle or the same favourite engine type.

[Summerwolf]

I said it a while ago....


Buy, build, document. Nothing else is relevant and hopefully this thread gets buried until something comes of your hopes and dreams.


When you run in to issues people will be here to help as well as laugh with you. You will then realize why most people suggest certain options as opposed to others, abandon the build and then move on to another project.


From your story though, this whole scenario seems to be about 10 years off. Most people won't even be a member of this community then.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by bradsm87

There is no rule where you need to have the same goals as others for a vehicle or the same favourite engine type.

There is also no rule that forbids people from making recommendations they feel may benefit you. You do not have to agree with those recommendations but sure as hell don't need to rag on them for giving them either.
The guys were just trying to help and you went full postal on them.
This is an active forum where you will get all sorts of info not a Wikipedia page where you search specific info and that is all you get.

[Chad_W]

TL;DR

OP: Hey guys, I'm trying to decide between A and B, I know they're are options C and D, but I really stuck on A or B and just trying to figure which is best

Everyone: CCCCC!!!!! DDDDDD!!!!!

OP: I know that C and D are both good ideas, but that's not really what I'm asking about here....

Everyone: I'll wash my face with the blood of your children! You are unfit to drive an FT86 or breathe the air of this world, may you die a thousand deaths!!111!

After about 40k miles on my BRZ, I stand behind my initial impression, this car would be absolutely perfect with 50% more engine. Like the OP, I've had many boosted and swapped cars and I understand and appreciate the various ways to make power. An EZ30 would fit the bill perfectly here and with a good header and tune, you could expect about 10-12% more power. Combine that with a 4.56 rear end, the right sounding exhaust and I think it would be nirvana.

My real question is after the physical issues are solved, how is everything going to play out with accessories? A/C, Tachometer, Cruise Control, etc... my BRZ is my daily and wouldn't want to compromise any of that.

[-Willis-86touge]

Ok, about the ez30 maybe it will be good and maybe not. Here are some suggestions about the ez30. A lot of headach for payoff. And I think this is everyone's main objection. But people should follow up on why not just put it down! And here's why brad you say you want a small engine. Stock they dyno at 181hp and 181tq. The fa20 can manage that easily. But yes the ex had a better torque curve so probably better as a daily driver. Also my research has lead me to believe at most the engine would have fully built its aroun 230 hp and 230 tq. So after spending God know how much on the swap you would still Spend plenty on the build as well. Still 230 is probably pretty good for are chassis seeing how a bad supercharger offers around the same and people love it. No with all that said is it worth it to you. Who knows that's for you to figure out. Others should support your decision and not criticize you. Personally I don't belive 230 is worth the headache. But that's me. My choose is lfx and I stand by it might be a headache but 300whp fully built na seems worth it to me. With the added lightness and balance off course. Which may I add is what people I think are overlooking in what you want to do. Griffin has proven our car can run with the bigg boys by lighten it up. Power was never what Toyota had in mind. Now as for the fa20. I think he's way more to come. 2.3 stroker to add with this I belive we will be able to achieve more hp and maybe not mor tq as the ez30. This to is why I wouldn't go that route. But this is just my opinion. To each their own!!!

[bradsm87]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

There is also no rule that forbids people from making recommendations they feel may benefit you. You do not have to agree with those recommendations but sure as hell don't need to rag on them for giving them either.
The guys were just trying to help and you went full postal on them.
This is an active forum where you will get all sorts of info not a Wikipedia page where you search specific info and that is all you get.

I have no issue with that and I was very friendly to those that suggested different options in a friendly manner. I was pretty shocked by the unfriendly ones that kept coming back.