How bad is E85 in freezing winter?

[zmz0305]

I have heard that it could be difficult to start the car running E85 in low temperature. But how bad could it be? Anyone had tried it before?

[NyC Zn6]

Originally Posted by zmz0305

I have heard that it could be difficult to start the car running E85 in low temperature. But how bad could it be? Anyone had tried it before?

Mine usually takes two tries to start in the cold. There is some fine tuning that can be done with OFT to help the cold start crank issue with e85. I haven't tried the fine tuning but updated my map couple months ago around December and it helped a lot. Now it starts on one try, don't know if Shiv made updates for the cold start with that map but it helps. Only issue I can think of is hurting the starter.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by zmz0305

I have heard that it could be difficult to start the car running E85 in low temperature. But how bad could it be? Anyone had tried it before?

There are many documented cases of how e85 behaves in cold weather, this occur mainly when you get below 40-50 degrees Fahrenheit unless your tune has edited cranking tables. It takes the o2 sensors longer to heat up, in turn the car doesn't run or idle the best in cold weather until warmed up, it will crank quite a bit then finally start.

The problem with ethanol (e85) is it's "Reid Vapor pressure" (RVP), it simply does not want to vaporize below 50 degrees. Therefore it can't ignite, causing a cranking condition. It will only turn over once the combustion chamber temps get hot enough that the ethanol can vaporize.

If you have an OFT or can speak to your tuner have them apply this edit:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40

As well as these cranking tables:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83945



Those edits should help you at above 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

[phrosty]

I ran E83 down to about 40-45 F last winter and it worked first time every time with the updated cranking tables.

Never tried going lower -- didn't want to risk stranding myself. Curious what the actual minimums are. Can probably go a lot lower by diluting with E10.

[zmz0305]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

There are many documented cases of how e85 behaves in cold weather, this occur mainly when you get below 40-50 degrees Fahrenheit unless your tune has edited cranking tables. It takes the o2 sensors longer to heat up, in turn the car doesn't run or idle the best in cold weather until warmed up, it will crank quite a bit then finally start.

The problem with ethanol (e85) is it's "Reid Vapor pressure" (RVP), it simply does not want to vaporize below 50 degrees. Therefore it can't ignite, causing a cranking condition. It will only turn over once the combustion chamber temps get hot enough that the ethanol can vaporize.

If you have an OFT or can speak to your tuner have them apply this edit:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40

As well as these cranking tables:

http://www.ft86club.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83945



Those edits should help you at above 40 degrees Fahrenheit.

In my area it could be 0-20F for month. I guess E85 is not recommended in that kind of condition right?

Also, what will happen if this map is used in higher temperature?

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by zmz0305

In my area it could be 0-20F for month. I guess E85 is not recommended in that kind of condition right?

Also, what will happen if this map is used in higher temperature?

In my area it could be 0-20F for month. I guess E85 is not recommended in that kind of condition right?

You'd honestly have to ask someone that daily's an E85 car year round in multiple temperature conditions, I only do it during spring/summer if that and only once or twice a year for shits and giggles
If running e85 is something you want you'll have to add some 93 octane (1 gallon) to the tank for those months and also use a block heater and store and start the car in a warm place. The OFT E85 tunes are good for E60-E85 I believe which is why you can add a gallon of 93 into the mix to help start-ability @steve99 could elaborate on this, I've only run e85 once or twice.

Personally as a daily driver car for me, I would never risk having start ability issues in the winter months, so I would avoid it all together below 40 degrees.

Also, what will happen if this map is used in higher temperature?
I believe it will work fine or just flash the non edited map it's that easy.

[Guff]

I've been running E85 year round in Illinois for a while and with a modified cold start injector pulse width, I can get the car to start first try in sub-30F weather. Granted, I rarely drive the car in those temperatures, but I haven't had any issues with starting. I have to do the occasional second try on some days, but most days the car starts right up.

[steve99]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

In my area it could be 0-20F for month. I guess E85 is not recommended in that kind of condition right?

You'd honestly have to ask someone that daily's an E85 car year round in multiple temperature conditions, I only do it during spring/summer if that and only once or twice a year for shits and giggles
If running e85 is something you want you'll have to add some 93 octane (1 gallon) to the tank for those months and also use a block heater and store and start the car in a warm place. The OFT E85 tunes are good for E60-E85 I believe which is why you can add a gallon of 93 into the mix to help start-ability @steve99 could elaborate on this, I've only run e85 once or twice.

Personally as a daily driver car for me, I would never risk having start ability issues in the winter months, so I would avoid it all together below 40 degrees.

Also, what will happen if this map is used in higher temperature?
I believe it will work fine or just flash the non edited map it's that easy.

Use wayno s crank tables above, they will be good for starting on up to 90 percent ethanol down to about 40F first crank. then you start to run into the physical properties of ethanol not vaporizing.

Below 40F if you have high ethanol content like over 70 percent or so, your going to have to add some petrol to dilute it down to arround 70% or its just not going to start reliably below 40F


the cranking fuelling is adjusted relative to temperature (top axis of table is temperature)

[Fred E]

Originally Posted by Guff

I've been running E85 year round in Illinois for a while and with a modified cold start injector pulse width, I can get the car to start first try in sub-30F weather. Granted, I rarely drive the car in those temperatures, but I haven't had any issues with starting. I have to do the occasional second try on some days, but most days the car starts right up.

I'd like to echo this; I've run E85 in the winter in New Jersey and the car has started on the first try all the way down to sub-10F weather (and probably colder). Your tune just has to be modified properly and you shouldn't have a problem.

[jasonojordan]

The key here is make sure you keep the e85 fresh. It breaks down much quicker and in the winter time this is an even bigger issue at very cold temps. That said I ran my wrx year round on e85 for 4 years. Had one time it would not start and it had sat out with a strong wind in my parents yard for a day and a half at -30 degs.

[ben721364]

Originally Posted by zmz0305

I have heard that it could be difficult to start the car running E85 in low temperature. But how bad could it be? Anyone had tried it before?

I can think of nothing positive to say about [corn bases] ethanol laced motor gasoline in any concentration, especially higher ones like 85%.

[fumanchu1]

Originally Posted by ben721364

I can think of nothing positive to say about [corn bases] ethanol laced motor gasoline in any concentration, especially higher ones like 85%.

You mean aside from more power?

[jasonojordan]

Originally Posted by ben721364

I can think of nothing positive to say about [corn bases] ethanol laced motor gasoline in any concentration, especially higher ones like 85%.

Also burns cooler so lower temps for our already borderline insufficiently cooled engines.

[ben721364]

Originally Posted by fumanchu1

You mean aside from more power?

Please provide a citation to support claim that engines burning E85 provide more power? What about fuel consumption? Manufacturing and distribution costs, ex subsidies? I am willing to be convinced?