STX Rules and Setup Questions

[drewbot]

Echoing front bar love today. I put on the Hotchkis front bar on the low setting and it's a beast in slalom. The increased limitations of the car are always welcome, now it's time for the driver to exploit them....

Sent from my A0001 using Tapatalk

[DocWalt]

Some fun stats from autocross yesterday: 1.2G steady state cornering, 1.32G peak cornering. 1.23G peak braking (sustained too!) and 0.66G peak acceleration. I'd say the RE-71Rs are pretty grippy!

I rode in a friend's CS prepped BRZ for the first time yesterday... He's a great driver (I'd say better than me anyway) and knowing that my car was 1.7 seconds faster is wild considering how fast his car felt, lol.

[qitorr]

Hi, I have been reading through these pages and found answers for 2013 but wanted to check if a couple things were current.
1. E85, still STX legal?
2. wet carbon hoods. Lots of hail damage around here recently. I assume any vented version would for sure be a no go.

[48Spoons]

Originally Posted by qitorr

Hi, I have been reading through these pages and found answers for 2013 but wanted to check if a couple things were current.
1. E85, still STX legal?
2. wet carbon hoods. Lots of hail damage around here recently. I assume any vented version would for sure be a no go.

1. E85 is not longer legal in STX
2. Can't use non stock hood.

[Stang70Fastback]

HI GUISE!

So this is my second year autocrossing, and my first year in STX. Last year I autocrossed bone stock. This year I threw on KW V3 coilovers, camber plates, LCAs, and am running 245 RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. It seems to be working, because I've taken 1st place in STX in both events I've done this year so far!

At the autocross this weekend, my car was leaning so much through the slaloms that I was scraping my Gorilla flaps on the ground. I decided this was a good opportunity to make use of the adjust-ability of the KWs, as I had been too lazy to adjust them up to that point. So I dove under the car between runs and set the compression to full stiff at all four corners just to see what would happen. It made an ENORMOUS difference in body roll, but the car became very tail happy. So I let a bit more pressure out of the rear tires, and after that I was very happy with how the car handled.

So, my question is: For autocross, is there a reason I wouldn't want to just make everything full stiff? The KW V3 isn't a "track-only" coilover, so it's rather soft. I would think I should just turn everything up all the way for autocross, where the car just gets violently tossed around, and then tweak the over/understeer with tire pressures. Is that a decent approach?

Also, I never touched the rebound that day because I didn't have the key on me in grid. Should I max that out as well?

[strat61caster]

It doesn't hurt to try and no matter what anyone says, experiencing something first hand beats free advice, and sometimes paid advice too.

Too stiff and a bumpy course may cause the car to become unsettled easily is really the only big problem with going too stiff. Also check the manual on the KW, some dampers do not want you running full soft or stiff like Koni, can't remember if that's true for KW or not.

[Silver Ignition]

It's really gonna be one of those personal things I think...I doubt there's a set number that works for everyone. It'll also depend on other mods, alignment settings, driving style etc...


I prefer my car to be on the softer side for autoX, I usually run my KWv3 3 or 4 clicks up from full soft on compression. I got a click or two stiffer on rebound to control body roll, which with a Perrin 22 and TRD 17 is negligible.


At the last dry event I had the car setup as follows:
FRONT C+3 R+5 30psi
REAR C+3 R+4 32psi
(number of clicks from full soft)


I like the feel of this setup for me. I tried the first event with all settings at midway and I was really uncomfortable in the car, it just didn't feel right to me.

[ka-t_240]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

HI GUISE!

So this is my second year autocrossing, and my first year in STX. Last year I autocrossed bone stock. This year I threw on KW V3 coilovers, camber plates, LCAs, and am running 245 RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. It seems to be working, because I've taken 1st place in STX in both events I've done this year so far!

At the autocross this weekend, my car was leaning so much through the slaloms that I was scraping my Gorilla flaps on the ground. I decided this was a good opportunity to make use of the adjust-ability of the KWs, as I had been too lazy to adjust them up to that point. So I dove under the car between runs and set the compression to full stiff at all four corners just to see what would happen. It made an ENORMOUS difference in body roll, but the car became very tail happy. So I let a bit more pressure out of the rear tires, and after that I was very happy with how the car handled.

So, my question is: For autocross, is there a reason I wouldn't want to just make everything full stiff? The KW V3 isn't a "track-only" coilover, so it's rather soft. I would think I should just turn everything up all the way for autocross, where the car just gets violently tossed around, and then tweak the over/understeer with tire pressures. Is that a decent approach?

Also, I never touched the rebound that day because I didn't have the key on me in grid. Should I max that out as well?

How low are you, how much clearance do your flaps have, and have you been corner balanced?

[smg1138]

Yeah, I can't imagine going full stiff in AutoX would be a great idea. Very few of the courses we run on are smooth enough to pull that off. I have Tarmac 2's and generally use RCE's recommended settings for AutoX. On street I usually set them pretty close to full soft.

[xwd]

Kind of depends on the course and surface, but going full stiff on compression is going to have all kinds of negative tradeoffs on most lots and courses.

What kind of swaybars are you running? How low are the flaps? Body roll isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most people running around 400lb springs in STX use fairly low compression.

[2superblus]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

HI GUISE!

So this is my second year autocrossing, and my first year in STX. Last year I autocrossed bone stock. This year I threw on KW V3 coilovers, camber plates, LCAs, and am running 245 RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. It seems to be working, because I've taken 1st place in STX in both events I've done this year so far!

At the autocross this weekend, my car was leaning so much through the slaloms that I was scraping my Gorilla flaps on the ground. I decided this was a good opportunity to make use of the adjust-ability of the KWs, as I had been too lazy to adjust them up to that point. So I dove under the car between runs and set the compression to full stiff at all four corners just to see what would happen. It made an ENORMOUS difference in body roll, but the car became very tail happy. So I let a bit more pressure out of the rear tires, and after that I was very happy with how the car handled.

So, my question is: For autocross, is there a reason I wouldn't want to just make everything full stiff? The KW V3 isn't a "track-only" coilover, so it's rather soft. I would think I should just turn everything up all the way for autocross, where the car just gets violently tossed around, and then tweak the over/understeer with tire pressures. Is that a decent approach?

Also, I never touched the rebound that day because I didn't have the key on me in grid. Should I max that out as well?

Are you going to come up a race us in Milwaukee this weekend? 2 day event.

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

It doesn't hurt to try and no matter what anyone says, experiencing something first hand beats free advice, and sometimes paid advice too.

Too stiff and a bumpy course may cause the car to become unsettled easily is really the only big problem with going too stiff. Also check the manual on the KW, some dampers do not want you running full soft or stiff like Koni, can't remember if that's true for KW or not.

Yeah, I definitely intend on messing around. I just wanted to get some input. The location we are running at this year is rather smooth, so I don't have to worry too much about a lot of bumps that might unsettle the car. I looked at the KW Setup guide and they don't state any limits so I think I'm free to use the full adjustment range.

Originally Posted by Silver Ignition

It's really gonna be one of those personal things I think...I doubt there's a set number that works for everyone. It'll also depend on other mods, alignment settings, driving style etc...


I prefer my car to be on the softer side for autoX, I usually run my KWv3 3 or 4 clicks up from full soft on compression. I got a click or two stiffer on rebound to control body roll, which with a Perrin 22 and TRD 17 is negligible.


At the last dry event I had the car setup as follows:
FRONT C+3 R+5 30psi
REAR C+3 R+4 32psi
(number of clicks from full soft)


I like the feel of this setup for me. I tried the first event with all settings at midway and I was really uncomfortable in the car, it just didn't feel right to me.

Which version of the KWs do you have? Apparently they used to be 400 lb/in rates, but I got the "revised" version which has much lower rates closer to 280. So that might be why mine is leaning more. For daily driving I'm running around -7/-8 from full stiff on the settings, and that was what I WAS running in autocross when I started hitting my mud flaps.

I don't have any other modifications such as sway bars or anything. I'm not against body roll, but I wouldn't mind not hitting the flaps on the ground, and I honestly thought the car felt a bit more sharp, and less sloppy through the slalom when I pumped everything up to max.

Originally Posted by ka-t_240

How low are you, how much clearance do your flaps have, and have you been corner balanced?

I haven't gotten the car corner balanced. I might eventually, but it's not in the cards for the immediate future. I'm only lowered about an inch. This photo shows how low the car/flaps are to the ground. Still plenty of clearance.

Originally Posted by smg1138

Yeah, I can't imagine going full stiff in AutoX would be a great idea. Very few of the courses we run on are smooth enough to pull that off. I have Tarmac 2's and generally use RCE's recommended settings for AutoX. On street I usually set them pretty close to full soft.

Your Tarmac 2s are going to be a LOT stiffer than my KWs though. The spring rates on my KWs are like 280, so I'm going to have a lot more roll, and definitely can't run as soft as you've been running. Our parking lot is pretty smooth, so I don't have to worry about big bumps unsettling the car if I make it too stiff.

Originally Posted by xwd

Kind of depends on the course and surface, but going full stiff on compression is going to have all kinds of negative tradeoffs on most lots and courses.

What kind of swaybars are you running? How low are the flaps? Body roll isn't necessarily a bad thing. Most people running around 400lb springs in STX use fairly low compression.

Yeah, as mentioned above the surface we run on is relatively smooth without too many crazy bumps, so the car doesn't become too unsettled.

Stock swaybars at the moment, though I'm thinking that might be my next modification. My V3s are probably the revised spring rate, which is closer to 280 lb or so, so I'm probably going to need to run higher compression settings.

Originally Posted by 2superblus

Are you going to come up a race us in Milwaukee this weekend? 2 day event.

Ha! You know who I am? That's not good! Lol. I hear Milwaukee is much more competitive, so I'm trying to make it up there but work so far has been a bit roadblock, and this weekend will be no different, unfortunately. Maybe the next time? Really hope to make it to ONE of your events this year, at least.

[cjd]

Originally Posted by Stang70Fastback

HI GUISE!

So this is my second year autocrossing, and my first year in STX. Last year I autocrossed bone stock. This year I threw on KW V3 coilovers, camber plates, LCAs, and am running 245 RE71Rs on 17x9 wheels. It seems to be working, because I've taken 1st place in STX in both events I've done this year so far!

At the autocross this weekend, my car was leaning so much through the slaloms that I was scraping my Gorilla flaps on the ground. I decided this was a good opportunity to make use of the adjust-ability of the KWs, as I had been too lazy to adjust them up to that point. So I dove under the car between runs and set the compression to full stiff at all four corners just to see what would happen. It made an ENORMOUS difference in body roll, but the car became very tail happy. So I let a bit more pressure out of the rear tires, and after that I was very happy with how the car handled.

So, my question is: For autocross, is there a reason I wouldn't want to just make everything full stiff? The KW V3 isn't a "track-only" coilover, so it's rather soft. I would think I should just turn everything up all the way for autocross, where the car just gets violently tossed around, and then tweak the over/understeer with tire pressures. Is that a decent approach?

Also, I never touched the rebound that day because I didn't have the key on me in grid. Should I max that out as well?

Were you faster? More than anything, this suggests you probably can deal with higher spring rates. Relying on stiff compression can certainly work - I had to do that years back in my ACR when no spring options were available. It's probably not optimal, though. Increasing spring rate to suit is likely to get you further - and swaybars if you find good rates. I doubt we'll see 'instructional runs' in Chicago, but if we do you'd be welcome to take my car out for a spin to see what you think of the other end of the spectrum, spring-rate wise.

On the other hand, it may just be that leaving your lights on caused the whole day to go out of whack...

[Stang70Fastback]

Originally Posted by cjd

Were you faster? More than anything, this suggests you probably can deal with higher spring rates. Relying on stiff compression can certainly work - I had to do that years back in my ACR when no spring options were available. It's probably not optimal, though. Increasing spring rate to suit is likely to get you further - and swaybars if you find good rates. I doubt we'll see 'instructional runs' in Chicago, but if we do you'd be welcome to take my car out for a spin to see what you think of the other end of the spectrum, spring-rate wise.

On the other hand, it may just be that leaving your lights on caused the whole day to go out of whack...

Haha. FIRST OFF, I had to explain to like 20 people yesterday that my lights were NOT on! I have a TapTurn module, and I have the approach/departure setting set to 60 seconds, so all my turn signals stay on for 60 seconds after I leave the car, and people always think I left my corner lights on :P

I definitely feel that I was faster with the car stiffened up. It was just TOO soft before and it made things a bit sloppy and harder to be precise with the car. I understand stiffer springs would be better, but they aren't in the plans - at least not at the moment. Otherwise I would have gotten the Tarmac 2s. I intentionally went with the KWs because this is still 99% a DD car, and I wanted it to be comfortable, so I'm just looking to make the best with the current spring rates. Not trying to go to Nationals or something, lol.

I sure wouldn't mind trying a stiffer car out just to see the difference, though