Just another 450whp Turbo FT86 -- and NOW 530hp

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by VitViper

The WRX rods weren't revised for the HP they make, cause those motors make shit HP from the factory. The torque they make though... and how soon it comes in... yeah that becomes an issue on the N/A FA20 rods.

This is our stock 16 WRX with a quick street tune I slapped on it after putting 5 gallons of E85 into the tank and filling up the rest with 92 (So e35-e40 blend). If this is the torque the things make with just a small fuel change... wait til I get the stack of parts on it that we have sitting on the shelf..



EG, if you put this tiny of a turbo on our FA20 motor and make 300wtq @ 2500 rpm, you'll probably snap a rod first pull.

No one who is even close to smart is running 15-18lbs of boost on a stock fa20.

You're comparing a motor that is 2 levels of compression lower running 5-10 more lbs of boost than anyone should even consider on a stock block fa20.

It won't be making that kind of torque, but it will be making the horsepower.

so yes, if you're planning on running 15-20 lbs of boost, build your motor...lol...your rods are too "weak" to do so...lol

shit I wouldn't trust the pistons either at that point, although they'd probably hold up.

IOW, we don't have to worry about making 300lb-ft of torque on the FA20 stock at 2500 rpm because the Static CR doesn't allow for it at safe power levels...

Jaden

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by Jaden

No one who is even close to smart is running 15-18lbs of boost on a stock fa20.

I do, guess I'm retarded.

Originally Posted by Jaden

You're comparing a motor that is 2 levels of compression lower running 5-10 more lbs of boost than anyone should even consider on a stock block fa20.

It won't be making that kind of torque, but it will be making the horsepower.

so yes, if you're planning on running 15-20 lbs of boost, build your motor...lol...your rods are too "weak" to do so...lol

shit I wouldn't trust the pistons either at that point, although they'd probably hold up.

IOW, we don't have to worry about making 300lb-ft of torque on the FA20 stock at 2500 rpm because the Static CR doesn't allow for it at safe power levels...

Jaden

Anything is possible with the right fuel. The static C/R is amazing once you have the right fuel, so yes, 300tq is definitely quite possible at 2500 rpm on a stock FA20 with the correct fuel (E85 will do it).


However.



The rods won't take it.

And no, it won't be because of detonation.

[#maverick#]

Originally Posted by Jaden

No one who is even close to smart is running 15-18lbs of boost on a stock fa20.



Jaden

Well, color me stupid, I was running about 18 psi on my stock FA20 on a 5858 for about 10k miles

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by VitViper

I do, guess I'm retarded.



Anything is possible with the right fuel. The static C/R is amazing once you have the right fuel, so yes, 300tq is definitely quite possible at 2500 rpm on a stock FA20 with the correct fuel (E85 will do it).


However.



The rods won't take it.

And no, it won't be because of detonation.

You say in one breath that you're doing it, and in the next that the rods won't take it, yeah, that pretty much makes you retarded...

You can't have it both ways..lol. Either, the rods can't take it and you are not smart for doing it, or you WANT to see the rods fail or they CAN handle it...

You may want to reread your post and really think about it.

Jaden

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by #maverick#

Well, color me stupid, I was running about 18 psi on my stock FA20 on a 5858 for about 10k miles

Running more than about 10 psi on 91, or 12 on 93 or 12-15 on E85 is NOT smart on a stock FA20 bottom end if you want it to last.

If you don't care if it lasts, more power to you.

But you do realize I was arguing AGAINST the FA20 being too weak to have power adders right???

If the timing is retarded (rather than the tuner) then you might be able to get away with more, but there are diminishing returns for the risk when you can run lower boost and get the same power with more timing. Again, that comes down to the TUNE though...lol

Jaden

[BRZoomTX]

Originally Posted by VitViper

EG, if you put this tiny of a turbo on our FA20 motor and make 300wtq @ 2500 rpm, you'll probably snap a rod first pull.

Exactly what I've always been telling people, especially with supercharger kits and the twin screw kits mainly. Those kits make gobs of low-end torque. That is why people have thrown rods on supercharged setups under 250whp, where turbo guys with 55mm+ spooling at 4k make well more power and rarely fail on a good tune. Torque coming on later really saves the rods a lot. They still get tweaked from stress, but outright snapping from too much torque doesn't happen immediately as seen in even smaller supercharger kits.

I ran 470whp @ 19psi on a 5558 for 3k miles before my failure with a combination of a few different things including a poor tune. I felt safe running that on a stock motor. I would never feel safe running a supercharger kit at even ~250whp on a stock motor. The rods just don't take it (not sure what torque would be at that level... ~180-200?).

Unfortunately some people can't grasp this concept. Don't waste your time explaining it to him. He'll learn, someday.

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by BRZoomTX

Exactly what I've always been telling people, especially with supercharger kits and the twin screw kits mainly. Those kits make gobs of low-end torque. That is why people have thrown rods on supercharged setups under 250whp, where turbo guys with 55mm+ spooling at 4k make well more power and rarely fail on a good tune. Torque coming on later really saves the rods a lot. They still get tweaked from stress, but outright snapping from too much torque doesn't happen immediately as seen in even smaller supercharger kits.

I ran 470whp @ 19psi on a 5558 for 3k miles before my failure with a combination of a few different things including a poor tune. I felt safe running that on a stock motor. I would never feel safe running a supercharger kit at even ~250whp on a stock motor. The rods just don't take it (not sure what torque would be at that level... ~180-200?).

Unfortunately some people can't grasp this concept. Don't waste your time explaining it to him. He'll learn, someday.

Could you point out some of these engine failures on a SC?

Anything that I've read about blowing an engine has been on a turbo due to over boost or bad tuning.

I've been following the JRSC & Edelbrock and have never heard of any failures on either kit, especially on conservative power levels. Yes, I understand the low RPM torque is what matters but even so they're only pushing 180-200 WTQ, more so on the TVS unit. Haven't really read much about the Sprintex.

[GsxrMe]

Comparing SC to Turbos is pointless. With the right tune and turbo you don't even get turbo lag.

I do think it's easier to spend money going turbo though. So many damn supporting mods are required to keep oil & engine bay temps down.

[FRS Justin]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

Could you point out some of these engine failures on a SC?

Anything that I've read about blowing an engine has been on a turbo due to over boost or bad tuning.

I've been following the JRSC & Edelbrock and have never heard of any failures on either kit, especially on conservative power levels. Yes, I understand the low RPM torque is what matters but even so they're only pushing 180-200 WTQ, more so on the TVS unit. Haven't really read much about the Sprintex.

There are quite a few S/C motors that blew on this forum look at the JRSC I believe those are the ones going....

[johan]

Originally Posted by Jaden

You say in one breath that you're doing it, and in the next that the rods won't take it, yeah, that pretty much makes you retarded...

You can't have it both ways..lol. Either, the rods can't take it and you are not smart for doing it, or you WANT to see the rods fail or they CAN handle it...

You may want to reread your post and really think about it.

Jaden

DERP

He's not making that much boost until ~6k... Reading comprehension, context - important.

And calm down, seriously.

[Jaden]

Originally Posted by johan

DERP

He's not making that much boost until ~6k... Reading comprehension, context - important.

And calm down, seriously.

I looked at the graph...

I was going by what he was saying... and I'm perfectly calm...

Jaden

[Phantobe]

Originally Posted by FRS Justin

There are quite a few S/C motors that blew on this forum look at the JRSC I believe those are the ones going....

Haven't seen any and I've been following that kit quite a while. Generally when someone blows up they make their own thread, if you could find any would be interested to read.

[EAGLE5]

Yes, people have blown their JRSC engines. Bad tunes and/or bad installs, most likely. JRSC, even with the upgraded pulley, doesn't really make that much torque.

I believe the Sprintex/Innovate kit has killed more engines. Too much low-end torque.

[BRZoomTX]

Originally Posted by Phantobe

Could you point out some of these engine failures on a SC?

Anything that I've read about blowing an engine has been on a turbo due to over boost or bad tuning.

I've been following the JRSC & Edelbrock and have never heard of any failures on either kit, especially on conservative power levels. Yes, I understand the low RPM torque is what matters but even so they're only pushing 180-200 WTQ, more so on the TVS unit. Haven't really read much about the Sprintex.

Few threads throughout the forum. Local guys I've heard of popping motors were Rotrex and Sprintex kits. A lot of it is in the tune yes, but low-end torque is a stock rod killer.

The edelbrock kit barely makes much more power over stock for the price. That kit peaks somewhere around 180wtq, and I made 150wtq on e85. They kept torque low for a reason... the stock rods simply cannot take it. Edelbrock knows that, and any company who has done FI R&D on this platform knows that.

Lots of variables at play, but the main ones I see popping are guys running smaller pulleys or beating on the cars a lot. They think "hey, turbo guys make 400+ so I'm fine at only 250hp!".... wrong.