Ohm - A Car Battery that Never Needs to be Jumped | Indiegogo

[dazob]

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/o...to-be-jumped#/

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by dazob

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/o...to-be-jumped#/

1) First don't post links like that without an explanation
2) Don't trust any tech funded on indiegogos or kickstarters, whether or not this comes to fruition in the mass market or how it performs in the mass market is another thing, also as I'll say next it turned out to be a failure

3)THIS IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE: https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/o...umped#/updates

It was a major failure and was done a year ago, backers were refunded and they said this:

"Additionally, recent failures in our test units proved the electrical needs of cars are more nuanced than we understood, even after months of thought. While this might be overcome by over spec'ing our components, this would mean a considerably higher cost and decreased value to our users. However, this is where time, clever thinking, and hard work may help. It might be possible that a deeper understanding of the problem could result in a solution. The ongoing advances in the technologies we use may also make this problem easier. But for now, the path to such a solution is too unclear to take your contributions in good conscience"

They didn't understand there are reason why capacitors aren't used long term for a car battery and a lot of issues were brought up a lot of issues during testing before sending it to backers.

4) I can tell as a budding electrical engineer why this is hard to create, capacitors self discharge, in fact even if they sourced the best capacitor EVER it would discharge around 5% overnight, that's not including what the car draws when off for electronics and evap tests etc. After several hours of sitting this capacitor will probably be dead. It awesome for something like KERs to get an electric boost but not for battery duty long term

[joe strummer]

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

"Additionally, recent failures in our test units proved the electrical needs of cars are more nuanced than we understood, even after months of thought."

Seriously? A battery needs to provide a certain voltage at a certain amperage. The car's nuanced electrical needs are not supplied by its battery. In the immortal words of Chili Palmer- You're trying to tell me you fucked up without sounding stupid, and that's hard to do.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by joe strummer

Seriously? A battery needs to provide a certain voltage at a certain amperage. The car's nuanced electrical needs are not supplied by its battery. In the immortal words of Chili Palmer- You're trying to tell me you fucked up without sounding stupid, and that's hard to do.

Exactly they probably saw all those stupid eco modders trying this and thought, "Oh hey lets do something but less haphazardly". But then issues started to arise and it fell flat.

I feel it could work but it would need to be a hybrid capacitor and glass-mat battery, so you still cut weight essentially in half, and the capacitor can provide instant high amperage for a starter, whereas the battery portion can be used for long term storage and other electronics and to give the alternator a barrier to charge the capacitor. But at that point with that much R&D lithium ion is going to come so far in the next few years that's going to be the future of the 12V car battery....

[mdm]

I don't even need to read it. Capacitors have been around for a bazillion years, longer than cars. If they were usable as car batteries, professional engineers would use them already.

[CatScan]

I've never had a battery that needed to "jumped".

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by mdm

I don't even need to read it. Capacitors have been around for a bazillion years, longer than cars. If they were usable as car batteries, professional engineers would use them already.

Hybrid or Ultra-capacitors have NOT been around for a bazillion years.
When I was in college (90s) a 1 Farad Capacitor would take up a good chunk of a small classroom. Now you can hold 10F in the palm of your hand.

Originally Posted by FRSBRZGT86FAN

4) I can tell as a budding electrical engineer why this is hard to create, capacitors self discharge, in fact even if they sourced the best capacitor EVER it would discharge around 5% overnight, that's not including what the car draws when off for electronics and evap tests etc. After several hours of sitting this capacitor will probably be dead. It awesome for something like KERs to get an electric boost but not for battery duty long term

Ultracaps do not self discharge as much as you would think.


http://www.robotroom.com/Capacitor-S...scharge-4.html




Then the discharge flattens out.

and


https://www.tecategroup.com/ultracap...acitor-FAQ.php


Some equipment manufacturers have been using ultra-cap banks for years as a replacement for batteries. An example is in self-starting lawnmowers. That is not a big deal since when the lawnmower comes out the first time in the spring, you will need to start it the old fashioned way (pulling the cord). After that it should hold enough of a charge to start the mower for many weeks.

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by justatroll

Hybrid or Ultra-capacitors have NOT been around for a bazillion years.
When I was in college (90s) a 1 Farad Capacitor would take up a good chunk of a small classroom. Now you can hold 10F in the palm of your hand.




Ultracaps do not self discharge as much as you would think.


http://www.robotroom.com/Capacitor-S...scharge-4.html




Then the discharge flattens out.

and


https://www.tecategroup.com/ultracap...acitor-FAQ.php


Some equipment manufacturers have been using ultra-cap banks for years as a replacement for batteries. An example is in self-starting lawnmowers. That is not a big deal since when the lawnmower comes out the first time in the spring, you will need to start it the old fashioned way (pulling the cord). After that it should hold enough of a charge to start the mower for many weeks.

First off the indigogo project in question was not using ultracaps I believe most likely due to cost.The capacitor will still drain or loose power faster than the regular Ni-Cd/AGM/Li-ion battery even not connected to any devices in eight hours thats still 1.2 volts in self discharge alone not including what the car draws sitting. Some of those lower quality ultra capacitor even drop more than 3-5 volts overnight and that still scales that way because you'll need SIX of those 2.5V ultra capacitors to be equivalent to a car battery and to counter the power loss. It would also need to be 2600F not 500F which are still $70 each times 6 put you around $420, and you still need to create a m,ounting system and R&D to the public. At that point a Lithium ion battery is cheaper and less of a headache.....

The power density of ultra caps vs batteries sucks ass, it's something like 5kw/kg in a ultra cap vs 30-40kw/kg in a battery. Also a "ultra cap battery" in a car would need a built in circuit board to control voltage as it charges. The lawn mower example is intersting can you show me a manufacturer that still uses them? In a 12 V application?

[Whodunit]

Vapourware

[FRSBRZGT86FAN]

Originally Posted by Whodunit

Vapourware

Exactly, as are a surprising majority of things on kickstarter or indiegogo

[extrashaky]

Is anybody else bothered by the fact they named a battery after a measure of resistance?

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Is anybody else bothered by the fact they named a battery after a measure of resistance?

YES!
Was the first thing I thought of when reading the title and article. I was eagerly waiting an explanation of how ohms would avoid a battery dying. It never came.


I also found the title amusing because no battery should ever "need to be jumped" if the charging system and battery are functioning properly.

[joe strummer]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

Is anybody else bothered by the fact they named a battery after a measure of resistance?

Why should anyone be bothered by that?

[CatScan]

Why not just stick with a LiOn battery?