Random Thoughts - Part Deux [NO POLITICS]

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by jawn

Also, I like your sig, Ultra.

I'm volunteering for the campaign.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Cole

Because I need to know what pain is, before I watch young Carrie Fisher.

Yes pls

Carrie Fisher has claimed that when she asked Lucas if she could wear a bra under her costume on set, he said, "There are no bras in the future!" She believed him.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not a good assumption. We have zero clue on what can do what under what conditions.
We add new materials to the periodic table all the time. We may have discover.0000000000001% of what exists for all we know.

OK, time to jump in! All of the "new" elements in the periodic table are artificially made and highly unstable, with half lives measured in milliseconds or less. With regard to whether or not things are different in other parts of the universe, physics says "no". One of the fundamental assumptions of physics is that everything is the same everywhere and that the rules apply to all equally. If part of the universe has different laws, then it probably won't be actually a part of our universe but another universe entirely.

It is true that we only know about carbon and silicon based life forms and it is also true that life could have evolved under other scenarios involving other elements as the basic building blocks. HOWEVER, and this is important, everything that we know in this world that we would classify as alive is based on carbon. There are some silicon based viruses (tobacco mosaic virus is a good example) but not all biologists would accept the description of viruses as being alive. So all life that we know is carbon-based. If the universe is the same everywhere, it is reasonable to assume, absent other evidence, that life elsewhere also will be carbon-based. This also means water has to be available in liquid form. Those two conditions will be the clearest signal of extraterrestrial life that we can expect.

All of that goes out the window the second that we discover any life form that uses another element for its basis. But in the meantime, there is no compelling reason to assume that life elsewhere won't look a lot like life on Earth.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by babydriver

But in the meantime, there is no compelling reason to assume that life elsewhere won't look a lot like life on Earth.

Prove it.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Nevermore

I can't figure out why, with as outlandish and open-minded as their theories always seem to be scientists assume alien life is going to be the same as us. They look for planets in the goldilock zone, not too hot, not too cold, with liquid water and a similar atmosphere to ours. They think this stuff is the basis for all potential life. But who's to say an alien couldn't have developed on a planet with a daily temperature over 500 degrees, an alien that drinks acid instead of water?

The short answer is, because any carbon-based life will have become toast by 500 degrees, F or C. It's too hot for proteins to survive intact, let alone form in the first place. The hottest temps that living things on our planet seem to be able to survive are found with some thermophiles that can live at 95 C or so. These are the bacteria that give Yellowstone Park its characteristic color (Thermus aquaticus.)

It's more likely in my opinion that life could develop on a planet that was very cold, say if liquid methane were present. Still, the chemical reactions would be very slow at these temps. They could be alive and we might not even notice due to the glacial pace of their activity (pun intended).

[Ashikabi]

Originally Posted by babydriver

OK, time to jump in! All of the "new" elements in the periodic table are artificially made and highly unstable, with half lives measured in milliseconds or less. With regard to whether or not things are different in other parts of the universe, physics says "no". One of the fundamental assumptions of physics is that everything is the same everywhere and that the rules apply to all equally. If part of the universe has different laws, then it probably won't be actually a part of our universe but another universe entirely.

It is true that we only know about carbon and silicon based life forms and it is also true that life could have evolved under other scenarios involving other elements as the basic building blocks. HOWEVER, and this is important, everything that we know in this world that we would classify as alive is based on carbon. There are some silicon based viruses (tobacco mosaic virus is a good example) but not all biologists would accept the description of viruses as being alive. So all life that we know is carbon-based. If the universe is the same everywhere, it is reasonable to assume, absent other evidence, that life elsewhere also will be carbon-based. This also means water has to be available in liquid form. Those two conditions will be the clearest signal of extraterrestrial life that we can expect.

All of that goes out the window the second that we discover any life form that uses another element for its basis. But in the meantime, there is no compelling reason to assume that life elsewhere won't look a lot like life on Earth.

While I agree with most of this I believe it's perfectly reasonable that there is another element we haven't discovered because it's simply not here. That doesn't mean things are one way here and play by different rules elsewhere.

Take this as an example. The middle east has oil, new hampshire doesn't(that I know of). Still the same universe. So I think it's possible that something exists elsewhere that just didn't happen to be here when the earth formed.

I do agree with the search for planets similar to earth. We don't have the ability to survey every planet or even a few right now so we need to pick the one absolutely most likely to support life to maximize our chances of success.

Of course once we find alien life we will just kill it but that's another conversation

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Prove it.

Can't. Also can't prove that the laws of physics apply everywhere the same. Also can't prove that there is or isn't a Multiverse. Can't prove that gravity works equally in all parts of the universe. etc., etc.

But without assumptions, we can't progress at all. With new evidence, science progresses by revising those assumptions. Without any new evidence, though, there is no reason to revise the model just for the sake of change.

But you know this already, Tcoat.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Take this as an example. The middle east has oil, new hampshire doesn't(that I know of). Still the same universe. So I think it's possible that something exists elsewhere that just didn't happen to be here when the earth formed.

A more fair analogy might be to say that if we discovered oil in New Hampshire, it would burn about as well as oil from the middle east. The laws of physics haven't changed just because of the location.

Life is based on carbon because of the unique chemical properties of carbon, especially its ability to form arbitrarily long chains of polymers. The elements involved in organic molecules are carbon, oxygen, hydrogen, nitrogen, sodium, chlorine, potassium, magnesium, phosphorus, sulfur, calcium, iron, zinc and the occasional visitor such as bromine or iodine. Not a single element above the 4th row of the periodic table is involved the metabolism of living things, except for iodine. Those that are not simply inert are poisonous to carbon-based life. There is simply no reason to expect that any element above the 5th row will be involved in any biological process anywhere. That would certainly include any trans-uranic elements.

Anyway, be glad of that! Otherwise, we wouldn't have gasoline or E-85!

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by Ashikabi

Of course once we find alien life we will just kill it but that's another conversation

True that, my friend!!

[dvasqu01]

Went out to riverside today and I have to admit I loved the drive there and back 🤔


Yes I'll give you the rice noodle😘

[Ralle109]

Don't talk about food kitchen is empty and now I'm at Kfc.

Sadly the "best quality" fast food franchises in germany.

[p1l0t]

I'm just going to leave THIS here...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

[babydriver]

Some headlines are just too good to pass up:

Hillary Clinton: Republican "Fantasy" For Me To Be Handcuffed, "Not Even The Remotest Chance That Is Going To Happen"



Funny, that was Bill's fantasy too.

[babydriver]

Originally Posted by p1l0t

I'm just going to leave THIS here...

Sent from my SM-G920P using Tapatalk

Nice try. These bacteria have incorporated arsenic in place of phosphorus, but that is still a carbon-based life form with carbon-based organic chemistry at work. The braniacs who wrote this article don't understand the meaning of the term "carbon-based," apparently. We don't say that a life form that uses phosphorus is "phosphorus-based". As for NASA's credibility as of late, note that one of their scientists recently claimed that he had invented "warp drive."

In the case of the tobacco mosaic virus, silicon is used IN PLACE of carbon. As I stated earlier, though, not everyone in biology agrees that a virus is even "alive." It is missing several of the key features of living things.

In order for a life form to be "arsenic-based" it would need to incorporate arsenic as a replacement for carbon as the central structural atom.

There is a reasonably nice article at Wikipedia on the subject of alternative possibilities for the biochemistry of living things:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypoth...f_biochemistry