Preferred downshifting method?

[MrFisty]

Originally Posted by MisterSheep

lol with a loud ass rev match and loud popping exhaust nonsense goin on..

Isn't that how I get instagram followers?

Fireball or GTFO

[ZionsWrath]

But you said we are OVERCOMPLICATING by rev matching and double clutching

OMG you guys MAKE UP YOUR MIND

You sound like my GF picking eyeliner!

[MrFisty]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

You're missing the point... they don't make the cars fool proof. And nothing lasts forever. Stop over simplifying everything.

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Did you buy your twin for it to last forever? I've got bad news...


Someone asked the question of the wear of engine braking. I would assume that, if you were consistent in your driving style, it's probably similar to other shifts/accel.

I didn't buy my car to drive like a grandma on a sunday. Sometimes I rev match and engine brake. Clutches ain't that bad on the wallet, and it's not like you gotta buy one every 6 months.

If you do it smoothly, as @Tcoat mentioned, it's not a problem. If your car jearks around, hits the limiter, or generally doesn't sound or feel right, you're doing it wrong. Then again, if you can't do it right, you might not know when it feels wrong, I guess.

[justatroll]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

You're missing the point... they don't make the cars fool proof. And nothing lasts forever. Stop over simplifying everything.

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No I believe YOU are missing the point.
The car was designed to engine brake just like any "Sports car" out there.


If you are so worried about wear, why do you drive your car at all?
You know you are wearing out the wheel bearings don't you?


Engine braking does not wear much more than coasting.
The engine is still spinning in either case.
In fact some say that hard engine braking is essential to seating the piston rings when breaking in a newly rebuilt motor.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

You're missing the point... they don't make the cars fool proof. And nothing lasts forever. Stop over simplifying everything.

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Not "over simplifying" anything. It is simple. Cars are built to up and down shift. This whole downshift is bad mentality is just an application of quasi physics with no real world impact at all. Do autos go into neutral when you slow down? No, they downshift. Why the hell would manuals not be the same? Yes, you are correct, they do not make them fool proof and if you fuck up you can damage things that does not mean that you can not do things right without fear of damage.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by justatroll

No it does not. I engine brake & heel/toe all the time and have never noticed lack of response.

You haven't done it with the nannies cut because the difference is night and day. Normally, if you give it enough throttle the computer eventually says "ok you must really mean it." You've adapted to that.

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Not "over simplifying" anything. It is simple. Cars are built to up and down shift. This whole downshift is bad mentality is just an application of quasi physics with no real world impact at all. Do autos go into neutral when you slow down? No, they downshift. Why the hell would manuals not be the same? Yes, you are correct, they do not make them fool proof and if you fuck up you can damage things that does not mean that you can not do things right without fear of damage.

Have you even read a single post ive written? Youre not even refuting things ive said. When did i say engine braking was bad? I said using engine braking as your main method of stopping is bad and causes undue wear via downshifting. Before you make it sound as if im saying its bad for the engine, please direct me to where ive said that. I'm focusing on the clutch right now.

No offense, but surely someone with 30+ posts per day who practically lives and breathes on this forum would have better comprehension than that...

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[MisterSheep]

[FRSek]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

As long as you've mentioned it, the ECU resists revving the engine while the brake is applied. If you're going to heel-toe, do the pedal dance first. The difference is night and day. It just becomes a regular gas pedal - no interference.

Interesting i haven't tried the pedal dance yet. I was thinking a tune could also increase throttle response. It could also just be my feet getting used to this pedal setup.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by extrashaky

I use rev matching on just about every drive. I don't find many opportunities to use heel/toe on the street, however, and I fear these discussions give some of the inexperienced drivers on this board the idea that they should be practicing it when turning into the local Costco parking lot. Generally speaking, public roads are a place you shouldn't be practicing extreme techniques.

Especially overtones. Don't practice overtone scales on your saxophone while driving.

I get your point but it doesn't have to be extreme. Case in point - I still suck at heel-toe so, like @ZionsWrath, I don't do it on the track ...yet. I almost drove it into the wall once because, with the nannies off via the long push, in a second gear turn entry, the throttle blip didn't give me nearly enough.

So I started casually experimenting with it simply approaching a specific intersection at the end of an off ramp I take every day. I do that very same downshift into second with a heel-toe rev match.

Practice makes perfect. You don't have to drive like an asshat.

And yes, the nannies cut the throttle even with the long push. It sort of makes sense as a safety feature for the ham-footed driver but it's pretty awful when you expect the throttle to respond one way and it changes just because you're pushing the brake pedal.

Originally Posted by extrashaky

All this talk of double clutching made me want to see this again. Sound mixing by the legendary Richard Portman, who made sure McQueen's double clutching made it into the final sound mix (around 1:10 in the 2nd video). I first watched this movie as a teenager and went right out and tried (failed) to duplicate the double clutching in my Triumph.

Cool clip. I need to see the movie. But seriously, who double-clutches an upshift? That makes no sense.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Hey Bute remember that the designers of these clutches, transmissions and engines are also well versed in physics and actually design the cars to be downshifted and engine braked. It is not something people are doing beyond the design of the car.

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

You're missing the point... they don't make the cars fool proof. And nothing lasts forever. Stop over simplifying everything.

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Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

Have you even read a single post ive written? Youre not even refuting things ive said. When did i say engine braking was bad? I said using engine braking as your main method of stopping is bad and causes undue wear via downshifting. Before you make it sound as if im saying its bad for the engine, please direct me to where ive said that. I'm focusing on the clutch right now.

No offense, but surely someone with 30+ posts per day who practically lives and breathes on this forum would have better comprehension than that...

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"No offense (but be prepared for me to be offensive)" is one of my favorite lines EVER!
So now I am once again at the point in a debate where my involvement in the forum becomes the other person's focus instead of the topic at hand. My comprehension is just fine and I am pretty sure I was addressing your points with each of my responses. Since I have learned that as soon as somebody notes my level of activity as a fact in the debate I am wasting my breath if I go any further so may as well bow out.

[ajaxthebetter]

Originally Posted by Ultramaroon

You haven't done it with the nannies cut because the difference is night and day. Normally, if you give it enough throttle the computer eventually says "ok you must really mean it." You've adapted to that.

I agree with this, from my experiences. I've literally jabbed it to the floor before and not have it spike terribly high. The double tap seems to work really well, however. Almost like you are telling the ECU, "Prepare yourself."

Originally Posted by Tcoat

"No offense (but be prepared for me to be offensive)" is one of my favorite lines EVER!
So now I am once again at the point in a debate where my involvement in the forum becomes the other person's focus instead of the topic at hand. My comprehension is just fine and I am pretty sure I was addressing your points with each of my responses. Since I have learned that as soon as somebody notes my level of activity as a fact in the debate I am wasting my breath if I go any further so may as well bow out.

So let me understand this properly. You truly believe that using rev match downshifting as your MAIN method for slowing the vehicle down, does not cause undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch in comparison to the person who only uses the friction material of their clutch, or hell even the throw out bearing, --and thus in turn by definition wears be it slightly or dramatically-- when getting the car to go in first, shifting up and the occasional downshift on a turn (assuming said person is not driving MT improperly) ?

If the answer to that is yes, and if you practice that (not saying you do), I'll gladly see you at the transmission shop when I'm getting my first clutch changed after 200k km and you're on your third clutch.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by ButeraFRS

So let me understand this properly. You truly believe that using rev match downshifting as your MAIN method for slowing the vehicle down, does not cause undue and unnecessary wear on the clutch in comparison to the person who only uses the friction material of their clutch --and thus in turn by definition wears be it slightly or dramatically-- when getting the car to go in first, shifting up and the occasional downshift on a turn?

If the answer to that is yes, and if you practice that (not saying you do), I'll gladly see you at the transmission shop when I'm getting my first clutch changed after 200k km and you're on your third clutch.

You think I am a new driver?