Tires alone as upgrade, how big is the difference?

[OUGrad05]

It's no secret the BRZ and FRS have blah tires from Toyota/Subie.

By doing a tire upgrade and nothing more (Think of any of half a dozen great summer tires) how does this change the character of the car? I would assume the chassis is stiff enough to handle a significant rubber upgrade that would only prove highly beneficial for total grip when driving the car.

I've only seen one review where they felt the "tires complemented the chassis" right out of the gate. Most said additional stick would be highly beneficial.

I was hoping to get some folks with real world experience to comment.

[totopo]

Why do you want to change the tires? Are you chasing autox or time trial lap numbers?

Grip and lap times are overrated. Why did you buy the car? For lap times or for driving fun?

Why give up your OEM tires which everyone has a blast with and are great for learning? If you are looking for replacement tires that's different, because those mofos are expensive.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by totopo

Why do you want to change the tires? Are you chasing autox or time trial lap numbers?

Grip and lap times are overrated. Why did you buy the car? For lap times or for driving fun?

Why give up your OEM tires which everyone has a blast with and are great for learning? If you are looking for replacement tires that's different, because those mofos are expensive.

Don't have one yet, hoping to pick one up in the next 4 to 6 weeks and then start doing a few upcoming track days. My plan is to run the OE's into the dirt but a buddy of mine who does SCCA competition said to just get some decent michelins right out of the gate and move on.

Tires on this car are cheap, I can get full sets of top tier tires for 475-675/set. That's pretty darn cheap for good tires.

[jawn]

The biggest change you'll notice is more grip and more body roll.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by jawn

The biggest change you'll notice is more grip and more body roll.

Thats what was curious about. I would assume the added grip translates into more body roll. Does it negatively impact turn in and other responses of the car? I would suspect it generally helps these other areas as well especially since some of these tires will have stiffer sidewalls.

[Iceman]

Huge improvement.

I went from primacys to super sports and i am now on sport cup 2's, always on the stock size, and i feel like they should have come standard from the factory with PSS.

Stock primacy's are good for sliding around at low speed, but that's about it. Good tires will still let you play and you'll get much more confidence and greater control, specially on the front end(better turn in and a much more direct feel, that is the biggest difference). Faster, safer, more progressive and you won't loose any fun.

That being said, there is no need to throw away the stock tires, they're great for learning so give it a go first.

[Packofcrows]

If you get better tires you can mean:

Better grip tires
Quieter ride tires
Longer lasting tires

How big a difference? Not significant if you dont drive it hard in turns and hills.

[jawn]

Originally Posted by OUGrad05

Thats what was curious about. I would assume the added grip translates into more body roll. Does it negatively impact turn in and other responses of the car? I would suspect it generally helps these other areas as well especially since some of these tires will have stiffer sidewalls.

Initial turn-in is largely dependent on the tire itself, unless if you're talking about chicanes or transitions, in which case the roll can be a bad thing. Not necessarily bad for grip, but it's hard to get a car to respond when a corner is completely loaded. It's not going to respond to inputs quickly mid-squat or mid-dive. Mind you, Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't R-compounds or hardcore track tires, so the increase in roll isn't *that* bad, provided you're sticking with OEM tire sizes.

It's largely something you're only going to encounter issues with on a track or in autocross, but by that point I'm sure you'll be looking at other things to tweak.

[finch1750]

Buy the car. Drive it. See if you want to change something about how it feels/performs. Come back and ask a direct question at that point

[juliog]

If you need to ask... the answer is no, you don't need tires.

[OUGrad05]

Originally Posted by jawn

Initial turn-in is largely dependent on the tire itself, unless if you're talking about chicanes or transitions, in which case the roll can be a bad thing. Not necessarily bad for grip, but it's hard to get a car to respond when a corner is completely loaded. It's not going to respond to inputs quickly mid-squat or mid-dive. Mind you, Michelin Pilot Super Sports aren't R-compounds or hardcore track tires, so the increase in roll isn't *that* bad, provided you're sticking with OEM tire sizes.

It's largely something you're only going to encounter issues with on a track or in autocross, but by that point I'm sure you'll be looking at other things to tweak.

thanks for the input, I am guessing I'll fairly quickly be looking for a traction upgrade. My previous experience on tracks has been in vehicles with more power and much wider contact patches. I'll stick with OE size or perhaps go up in cross section 10 or 20mm but otherwise not a whole lot. And yes other things are likely to get tweaked in the future

[DarkSunrise]

Handling is improved with better tires but of course it depends what tires you upgrade to. If you're switching to a competitive 200tw street tire or better (RE71R, Rival/S, RS-3, etc.), it'll be a significant improvement. The car will also put power down more effectively on corner exit, although my car came stock with all-season Bridgestone Turanzas so that's my frame of reference not Michelin Primacys.

Re. body roll, it will increase but it's not too bad. To give you an idea, here's a shot of my car from a couple years ago when it was on completely stock suspension and just mild summer tires (300tw Sumitomo HTR ZIII).



Obviously a bit more roll but still not bad. Even on NT05's, Rivals, and RS-3's, the body roll has been decently managed in my experience. Most friends I've taken for ride-alongs have been surprised the suspension is stock. The OEM suspension is pretty well setup for sticky street tires. I would strongly suggest adding a set of camber bolts up front though.

[Dino451]

I upgraded to Pilot Super Sports mainly due to the fact the stock tires are crap in the wet.

I did 225 all around for a slightly wider stance. Overall much more grip and more confidence in sharp turns. Most of the time doing a u turn on the the stock tires resulted in tire squeal which made it seem I was going faster than I really was.

If you have the money and the stock tires are nearly done, upgrade. I recommend the super sports as they are pretty cheap for the grip you get.

[themadscientist]

Originally Posted by jawn

The biggest change you'll notice is more grip and more body roll.

That is exactly what I got with my wheel and tire upgrade. The grip is better initially, but then the factory bushings and suspension get overwhelmed and the rear end still steps out. The factory tires are well matched to the car as delivered.