Official 2016 Camaro Thread With Updates

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

IMO BMW fell off their game when they started making everything heavy and then simply adding more power. Guess what, any auto mfg can do the same thing. It's cheap to do that. Because of this strategy, the rest of the automotive world has caught up and even passed M cars on performance, dynamics and luxury. M cars are terrific, no doubt, but they're lost that intangible "special" place in the market to more niche players. Today, you have to really want a BMW to justify buying one over something cheaper, faster, more luxurious and/or more stylish. Sure some of this is subjective, but M cars used to be the special ones. BMW needs to re-thing their M strategy.

GT350 - Faster
Camaro SS - Equally as fast, Dynamically Better, Cheaper, Faster
ATS-V Coupe - Cheaper, more stylish
Alfa Romeo Guilia QV - Much Faster, probably dynamically better, more stylish
MBez C63 AMG - Faster, meaner
RC-F - More stylish
on and on...

And they keep getting bigger too, I was amazed the other day at how small my E39 looked parked next to a current 3 series.

[Ec1990]

SS 1LE vs 350R will be an interesting comparison. I just think the M4 is kind of a different ball game. How true of competitors are they?

[strat61caster]

BMW used to be sporty cars that were surprisingly luxurious.

Now they're luxury cars that put up decent numbers for the magazine's.

[Dadhawk]

I think I'm going to have to go drive the new Camaro.

Originally Posted by Motortrend

Of course, the other numeric outlier is price: $46,095 as tested for the Camaro SS, $77,495 for the M4. That's more than $31K.

So for the price of the M4 you can get the Camaro and a Twin? For that matter, you could get the Camaro and a relatively late model used Corvette.

Yea, no thanks BMW....

[DarkSunrise]

Originally Posted by DAEMANO

IMO BMW fell off their game when they started making everything heavy and then simply adding more power. Guess what, any auto mfg can do the same thing. It's cheap to do that. Because of this strategy, the rest of the automotive world has caught up and even passed M cars on performance, dynamics and luxury. M cars are terrific, no doubt, but they're lost that intangible "special" place in the market to more niche players. Today, you have to really want a BMW to justify buying one over something cheaper, faster, more luxurious and/or more stylish. Sure some of this is subjective, but M cars used to be the special ones. BMW needs to re-think their M strategy.

GT350 - Faster
Camaro SS - Equally as fast, Dynamically Better, Cheaper, Faster
ATS-V Coupe - Cheaper, more stylish
Alfa Romeo Guilia QV - Much Faster, probably dynamically better, more stylish
MBez C63 AMG - Faster, meaner
RC-F - More stylish
on and on...

Well said. The M3/4 has been getting larger and heavier, and the Camaro has been getting smaller and lighter, and now the twain have finally crossed paths. And unfortunately for BMW, Chevy is damn good at making performance cars in this size/weight segment.

Chevy still has some things to work out with the new Camaro (visibility being the big one IMO), but I hope they keep dropping weight classes and taking names.

[ZDan]

Originally Posted by DarkSunrise

Well said. The M3/4 has been getting larger and heavier, and the Camaro has been getting smaller and lighter, and now the twain have finally crossed paths.

They actually crossed paths in 2000, when both were ~3400 lb. Of course the original M3 was 2800 lb. whereas the Camaro was almost always ~3400 lb, until 2010 when they decided to make it a 2-door version of a ginormous sedan

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by ZDan

They actually crossed paths in 2000, when both were ~3400 lb. Of course the original M3 was 2800 lb. whereas the Camaro was almost always ~3400 lb, until 2010 when they decided to make it a 2-door version of a ginormous sedan

BMW's got fat in 1990, the E36 M3 weighed in at 3,200+ lbs in 1992, they started losing the formula a long time ago imo. Good reputation, engines, and suspensions kept them in the game through the early '00s.

I've grown to appreciate them for what they are, surprisingly capable high end daily cars. Screw the weight and the specs, comfy but capable. If I had all the time, money, and space I'd probably already have a 2002 an E30 a grocery getting wagon sitting next to some Alfa Romeos, but right now I'm hankering for an old M5... Don't have much interest in the luxo-barges they've put out in the past 10 years, impressive cars for sure but they don't seem to have much character...

Edit: Searching craigslist for BMW 2002's is going to get easier once you can price filter the new cars out by putting a minimum price on them.

[Packofcrows]

So it's between a school bus with lots of hp and torque or a BMW.... hmmm I'll take a Beemer for the high resale value in 5yrs.

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

So it's between a school bus with lots of hp and torque or a BMW.... hmmm I'll take a Beemer for the high resale value in 5yrs.

I was about to mock you for picking BMW for resale value, then I realized the alternative was a Chevy

[Packofcrows]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

I was about to mock you for picking BMW for resale value, then I realized the alternative was a Chevy

All my Mexican friend's, family members and half my neighbors either have a Camaro, Charger or a Challenger. If not, they have 10 Hondas. (my town is like 80% Hispanic or more)

They (Chev) sell for $10k to $15k here. They not even 5yrs old! If anyone can afford them, then resale value is crud imo.

I'm the one against the status quo here. I have my FR-S. Slow but not riced out with an exhaust as loud as a agriculture tractor.

Concerning BMW's, only see about 3-4 a week. All big family sedans. Sell here for approx $20k to 40k. Tried buying M5(?) in 2013, dude wanted $30k and it had almost 200k! LOL

[Kestrel]

Originally Posted by Rampage

Camaro SS as the superior sports coupe

Lel

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by Packofcrows

All my Mexican friend's, family members and half my neighbors either have a Camaro, Charger or a Challenger. If not, they have 10 Hondas. (my town is like 80% Hispanic or more)

They (Chev) sell for $10k to $15k here. They not even 5yrs old! If anyone can afford them, then resale value is crud imo.

Concerning BMW's, only see about 3-4 a week. All big family sedans. Sell here for approx $20k to 40k. Tried buying M5(?) in 2013, dude wanted $30k and it had almost 200k! LOL

I live 45 minutes away from you and understand your local market. Those Chevy's were only ~$25k new, $35k at the most fully loaded, on average they're loosing ~10% of their value each year, $2k-$4k. Whereas BMW's are over $35k to start, they're losing $4k-$10k per year! Of course a 5 year old car that sold for $50k is going to cost >$20k 5 years later!

But with a current price of nearly $100k for an M5, adjust that for inflation, you were looking at a $30k 200k mile car that's lost 70+% of it's value. That owner is losing at least $50k inflation adjusted owning that car for X number of years selling it to you for $30k. Assuming you were looking at an E60 which retailed for >$90k new in 2005, that's a $7.5k loss per year on the value of that car in 2013, not including maintenance costs for keeping it in good shape for 200k miles!

There are quite a few M5's for <$20k as I was looking this morning, a couple in the $9k region even, just depends on your criteria. I'd rock this if it passed an inspection from a guy a trust:
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/sby/cto/5449172991.html

You're telling me, you'd pick a >$70k car (the M4) and happily sell it 5 years later for ~40k, eating >$30k in losses over buying a ~$35k car (SS) and selling it 5 years later for $20k losing $15k in order to be financially conservative?

Fucking lol.

[jdmblood]

Originally Posted by Dadhawk

I think I'm going to have to go drive the new Camaro.



So for the price of the M4 you can get the Camaro and a Twin? For that matter, you could get the Camaro and a relatively late model used Corvette.

Yea, no thanks BMW....

81k for an m4 with cloth seats...

[Dadhawk]

Originally Posted by jdmblood

81k for an m4 with cloth seats...

Yea, I went and looked in my area after quoting Motor Trend. They are in the 90s here but most of those are convertibles. All for something that to me just says "201x generic automobile" in terms of styling.