The U.S. Government is trying to get rid of our racecars!

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by johan

Or JDM engines... that should completely freak out the entire Nissan and Honda world of modders / racers.

And Mazda, imagine a world with no 20b swaps

[chaoskaze]

Originally Posted by Decay107

And Mazda, imagine a world with no 20b swaps

I believe Mazda will eventually........ Follow though the rotary concept they had.... I mean Mazda is based in Hiroshima for god sake. It will raise like a Phoenix!! Like god damn ikki in Saint Seiya!!!

Rebirth from fire!!😭

Ok I geek out a bit too much. Time for my meds.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by Decay107

From an actual lawyer, rather than someone paid in weed based on how many clicks their articles get.

http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/images/EPA-Memo.pdf

If you want a memo that spells out for you the worst case scenarios, find a lawyer and have them put in writing.

That's the opposite end of the spectrum, because they can drum up support. Lawyers tend to side with their (paying) clients.

I read the memo two days ago and it reeks of the same fear-mongering sensationalist wording that may journalists have been using.

Originally Posted by Decay107

You know what else I gleaned from a second read

(5) Importation. You may not import
an uncertified engine or piece of
equipment if it is defined to be new in
the standard-setting part with a model
year for which emission standards
applied. Anyone violating this
paragraph (b)(5) is deemed to be a
manufacturer in violation of paragraph
(a)(1) of this section. We may assess a
civil penalty up to $37,500 for each
engine or piece of equipment in
violation. Note the following:
(i) The definition of new is broad for
imported engines/equipment;
uncertified engines and equipment
(including used engines and equipment)
are generally considered to be new
when imported.
(ii) Used engines/equipment that were
originally manufactured before
applicable EPA standards were in effect
are generally not subject to emission
standards.

Wonder how everyone would react to never being able to import R34s...

Yes, and it's been that way for many, many years... yet the stuff keeps coming in, even when declared properly as used engines.

It doesn't matter.

-alex

[VitViper]

You people have got to be nuts if you think the EPA isn't after killing off modifying your street car for track duty.

I'm moving back to Ukraine if this shit goes through. At least if they try that shit there I know I can get my race car friends together to march on the President's quarters.

[johan]

Originally Posted by mav1178

If you want a memo that spells out for you the worst case scenarios, find a lawyer and have them put in writing.

That's the opposite end of the spectrum, because they can drum up support. Lawyers tend to side with their (paying) clients.

I read the memo two days ago and it reeks of the same fear-mongering sensationalist wording that may journalists have been using.



Yes, and it's been that way for many, many years... yet the stuff keeps coming in, even when declared properly as used engines.

It doesn't matter.

-alex

Except.... this: https://www.sema.org/sema-enews/2016...-into-racecars

It doesn't get more clear than that. Stop denying the truth man... This shit is real. The EPA has admitted it. We're talking about an entire industry getting wiped out. Yes, race cars will still be able to exist - but the aftermarket has flourished through economies of scale. Take that scale away by removing road cars from it - dead.

[Decay107]

Originally Posted by mav1178

If you want a memo that spells out for you the worst case scenarios, find a lawyer and have them put in writing.

That's the opposite end of the spectrum, because they can drum up support. Lawyers tend to side with their (paying) clients.

I read the memo two days ago and it reeks of the same fear-mongering sensationalist wording that may journalists have been using.



Yes, and it's been that way for many, many years... yet the stuff keeps coming in, even when declared properly as used engines.

It doesn't matter.

-alex

Tell me more about how the EPA's lawyers will take a less hardline stance...

[strat61caster]

Originally Posted by VitViper

You people have got to be nuts if you think the EPA isn't after killing off modifying your street car for track duty.

Dude, there's zero reason you can't track with an emissions compliant vehicle, literally tens of thousands of people do it all the time.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by strat61caster

Dude, there's zero reason you can't track with an emissions compliant vehicle, literally tens of thousands of people do it all the time.

You can build a 1000hp drag EK Civic 4 cylinder with factory emissions equipment and a factory ECU?

You can build and tune a turbo drift car with a 100% stock ECU? Right, with no modifications to the ECU at all, you can just bolt on a turbo and go?

[johan]

I feel like I'm being trolled here. How can anyone on this site take such an ignorant stance...?

Cars like ours wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the long standing exemption from the CAA that professional motorsports has enjoyed. You really need to step back and think about how the push to go faster and the freedom to do so, has bread our car culture over the last 100 years. Without that culture, no auto manufacturer would bother to build cars like ours.

I'm not saying that cars like ours will suddenly cease to exist, no, that's crazy talk - BUT - that freedom to innovate has pushed things forward, it has made modern performance vehicles possible. If for no other reason than appreciation and solidarity, you have a responsibility to stand with enthusiasts against this. To not do so, and continue in this apathetic rhetoric is just disrespectful.

[VitViper]

Originally Posted by johan

I feel like I'm being trolled here. How can anyone on this site take such an ignorant stance...?

Cars like ours wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the long standing exemption from the CAA that professional motorsports has enjoyed. You really need to step back and think about how the push to go faster and the freedom to do so, has bread our car culture over the last 100 years. Without that culture, no auto manufacturer would bother to build cars like ours.

I'm not saying that cars like ours will suddenly cease to exist, no, that's crazy talk - BUT - that freedom to innovate has pushed things forward, it has made modern performance vehicles possible. If for no other reason than appreciation and solidarity, you have a responsibility to stand with enthusiasts against this. To not do so, and continue in this apathetic rhetoric is just disrespectful.

Bingo! Motorsports of all fashion has always been a breeding ground of innovation.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by johan

I feel like I'm being trolled here. How can anyone on this site take such an ignorant stance...?

Cars like ours wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the long standing exemption from the CAA that professional motorsports has enjoyed. You really need to step back and think about how the push to go faster and the freedom to do so, has bread our car culture over the last 100 years. Without that culture, no auto manufacturer would bother to build cars like ours.

I'm not saying that cars like ours will suddenly cease to exist, no, that's crazy talk - BUT - that freedom to innovate has pushed things forward, it has made modern performance vehicles possible. If for no other reason than appreciation and solidarity, you have a responsibility to stand with enthusiasts against this. To not do so, and continue in this apathetic rhetoric is just disrespectful.

I was shocked last night at the minimization and ridicule in some of the comments. I was actually startled into second-guessing myself. Thanks, Doug for digging up Pat Mulry's memorandum. The intent and threat is crystal clear. I sincerely hope people with deeper pockets can kill this quickly but if not, man, I'm all over marching wherever I need to voice my opinion. That's for sure.

[mav1178]

Originally Posted by johan

I feel like I'm being trolled here. How can anyone on this site take such an ignorant stance...?

Cars like ours wouldn't even exist if it weren't for the long standing exemption from the CAA that professional motorsports has enjoyed. You really need to step back and think about how the push to go faster and the freedom to do so, has bread our car culture over the last 100 years. Without that culture, no auto manufacturer would bother to build cars like ours.

I'm not saying that cars like ours will suddenly cease to exist, no, that's crazy talk - BUT - that freedom to innovate has pushed things forward, it has made modern performance vehicles possible. If for no other reason than appreciation and solidarity, you have a responsibility to stand with enthusiasts against this. To not do so, and continue in this apathetic rhetoric is just disrespectful.

So taking a dissenting opinion is being ignorant and disrespectful?

For the record, I am against broad rules that restrict without details. I also understand what the EPA is trying to pull here. I also have a vested interest in the outcome of this, as it is my current profession (automotive aftermarket/performance industry). But ignorant and disrespectful? Don't ever call someone with a different opinion that, unless they are insulting you (and not your opinion).

From my perspective, I just don't think the right people are asking the right questions... nor are they focusing their energies in the right direction.

My position can be summed up by this from the SEMA press release:

SEMA representatives met with EPA officials on January 20, 2016 to confirm the association’s understanding of the proposed regulation. The EPA officials confirmed that the regulation would make it illegal to convert a certified motor vehicle into a vehicle to be used solely for competition. The EPA officials claimed that this had always been their interpretation of the Clean Air Act.

I will voice my opinion all I want but this interpretation will end up in the court system.

That, or the law will need to be updated to reflect realities.

-alex

[johan]

Originally Posted by mav1178

So taking a dissenting opinion is being ignorant and disrespectful?

For the record, I am against broad rules that restrict without details. I also understand what the EPA is trying to pull here. I also have a vested interest in the outcome of this, as it is my current profession (automotive aftermarket/performance industry). But ignorant and disrespectful? Don't ever call someone with a different opinion that, unless they are insulting you (and not your opinion).

From my perspective, I just don't think the right people are asking the right questions... nor are they focusing their energies in the right direction.

My position can be summed up by this from the SEMA press release:



I will voice my opinion all I want but this interpretation will end up in the court system.

That, or the law will need to be updated to reflect realities.

-alex

Read the paragraph after the one you quoted. Look up the transcripts between congress and the EPA when the CAA was created and every time it was amended. If you're unwilling to do so and actually speak with authority on the matter, then please - walk away.

Ignoring the facts, ignoring the history and standing your ground when you have none to stand on - yes that makes you both ignorant and disrespectful - and I will call you on it because that sort of attitude, in our current apathetic world, will only make things worse. I find it incredibly offensive and honestly unacceptable on a forum like this where we are supposedly automotive enthusiasts. This change by the EPA is the beginning of the end for our sport and our culture, now is not the time to have our heads in the sand.

Thank God the people who actually matter in this argument are doing something about it. The automobile manufacturers are actually getting their own legal councils involved in fighting the EPA on this issue, so hopefully it will work out ok.

[Ultramaroon]

Originally Posted by mav1178

I just don't think the right people are asking the right questions... nor are they focusing their energies in the right direction.

-alex

Alex, this piques my interest. Not a setup. What do you think are the right questions? I have mixed feelings on the subject.