More Speculation!!!! Lol

[JD001]

Originally Posted by MokSpeed

This photo looks like the FR-S is giving birth to a new tC in the front.

It reminds of the Fiat Coupe.

[go_a_way1]

Originally Posted by FR-Sky

dam,, its 2017 model already,,,and i am still driving 2013 =[

Yup some time around August lol. I have had many good years with my 13 and have no reason to trade her in

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by phm14

I'm planning to buy a 86, but won't be making a decision until details are released on the 2017 model. If I'm impressed enough with the changes, I'll buy new. If not I'll look to a used FRS, which will certainly take a hit in resale with the '17 refresh and killing off of the Scion brand.

Nothing "certain" about that. It could take a hit if the refresh is substantially different, could stay the same if no huge changes and could actually go up in value if the refresh is a piece of crap (or at least perceived to be even if it isn't). The killing off of the Scion brand will not impact values one way or the other.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

Nothing "certain" about that. It could take a hit if the refresh is substantially different, could stay the same if no huge changes and could actually go up in value if the refresh is a piece of crap (or at least perceived to be even if it isn't). The killing off of the Scion brand will not impact values one way or the other.

That's not the case for me...and I believe most others associate a stronger perception of value, heritage and trust with the Toyota name over Scion. That credibility is well deserved, as attested by the number of folks on the forum that have gone to the trouble and expense of re-badging their cars. That preference will help push those buyers toward the genuinely Toyota branded cars. There is also an air of failure about a brand that has been discontinued, regardless of reason. Scion was marketed to, and is perceived as, an affordable new car option for youth buyers on a budget. None of this kept me from buying the 86, but it's not realistic to think is has no effect on perceived value. Check book values now on a three plus year old car, the check cars the same miles and age 6 months after a major model refresh. Values drop almost with exception, even without a brand cancellation thrown in. The very concerns voiced here on warranty service for Scions here are another example of a drop in perceived value, real or imagined.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by phm14

That's not the case for me...and I believe most others associate a stronger perception of value, heritage and trust with the Toyota name over Scion. That credibility is well deserved, as attested by the number of folks on the forum that have gone to the trouble and expense of re-badging their cars. That preference will help push those buyers toward the genuinely Toyota branded cars. There is also an air of failure about a brand that has been discontinued, regardless of reason. Scion was marketed to, and is perceived as, an affordable new car option for youth buyers on a budget. None of this kept me from buying the 86, but it's not realistic to think is has no effect on perceived value. Check book values now on a three plus year old car, the check cars the same miles and age 6 months after a major model refresh. Values drop almost with exception, even without a brand cancellation thrown in. The very concerns voiced here on warranty service for Scions here are another example of a drop in perceived value, real or imagined.

The FRS was a simple badge it was never made by Scion. You are attaching to much importance to that badge. If Scion failed that means that Toyota failed just as much since it was their line up. Scion can not be held as a separate entity as it was 100% Toyota. The badge bias of some people will not cause the car to drop in value.
Yes, if the refresh is a good one then the value will drop that is perfectly normal. If it is not the value will stay or go up. The major factor pushing used car value is supply and demand not what the badge says. If the refresh rocks and everybody trades in then we will see a drop. That is normal as well. All this remains to be seen once the refresh is out and to automatically figure it will be a drop is not completely accurate.

[zc06_kisstherain]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The FRS was a simple badge it was never made by Scion. You are attaching to much importance to that badge. If Scion failed that means that Toyota failed just as much since it was their line up. Scion can not be held as a separate entity as it was 100% Toyota. The badge bias of some people will not cause the car to drop in value.
Yes, if the refresh is a good one then the value will drop that is perfectly normal. If it is not the value will stay or go up. The major factor pushing used car value is supply and demand not what the badge says. If the refresh rocks and everybody trades in then we will see a drop. That is normal as well. All this remains to be seen once the refresh is out and to automatically figure it will be a drop is not completely accurate.

x 2 x ditto

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

The FRS was a simple badge it was never made by Scion. You are attaching to much importance to that badge. If Scion failed that means that Toyota failed just as much since it was their line up. Scion can not be held as a separate entity as it was 100% Toyota. The badge bias of some people will not cause the car to drop in value.
Yes, if the refresh is a good one then the value will drop that is perfectly normal. If it is not the value will stay or go up. The major factor pushing used car value is supply and demand not what the badge says. If the refresh rocks and everybody trades in then we will see a drop. That is normal as well. All this remains to be seen once the refresh is out and to automatically figure it will be a drop is not completely accurate.

Hopefully the last insight I will share on the brand topic will fall on some open ears. I wouldn't have likely been a 1st adopter of the 86 platform with the confidence in Toyota warranty service I have developed over 36 years of Toyota ownership, which have included a couple of major warranty service tests, so that demonstrates I don't suffer the "badge bias" you mention. I don't have that same confidence in any other manufacturer, including Subaru. I have come to that conclusion from years of personal experience, as well as 1st person experiences from others. If you want to believe brand has no effect on resale, have at it. On the other other hand, I see you have accumulation 100x + more posts here than I in half the time I've been registered on this site, so you must know at least 100x what this 53 year old educated business owner does, right? Heck, it sounds like you could have been head of marketing for Saturn...you do remember Saturn?...

[HunterGreene]

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by phm14

Hopefully the last insight I will share on the brand topic will fall on some open ears. I wouldn't have likely been a 1st adopter of the 86 platform with the confidence in Toyota warranty service I have developed over 36 years of Toyota ownership, which have included a couple of major warranty service tests, so that demonstrates I don't suffer the "badge bias" you mention. I don't have that same confidence in any other manufacturer, including Subaru. I have come to that conclusion from years of personal experience, as well as 1st person experiences from others. If you want to believe brand has no effect on resale, have at it. On the other other hand, I see you have accumulation 100x + more posts here than I in half the time I've been registered on this site, so you must know at least 100x what this 53 year old educated business owner does, right? Heck, it sounds like you could have been head of marketing for Saturn...you do remember Saturn?...

This 56 year old, retired military officer, educated, senior manager of a major automotive OEM parts manufacturer maintains that the badge on a FRS means nothing. You have now thrown Subaru into the mix to support your lack of confidence and that changes your argument. If just judging the car by the Scion badge then it is a pure Toyota through and through if you have concerns because it is also Subaru then that is different.
Again Scion never made a single car, not once, not ever. If you have such great trust in Toyota then you should have the same in Scion they are made by the same people in the same plants as the Toyotas. Scion cars ARE/WERE Toyotas.


What the hell does my number of posts (and it is 1/3rd of your time by the way) or Saturn have to do with any of this???????

[Brayden_23]

I know I shouldn't get involved in this pissing match, but here I go...

People need to stop getting their panties all in a bunch over Scion discontinuing. If you drive the 86 platform, just enjoy the crap out of your car; that's what it was made for. If you are really that concerned about resale value, I recommend you stop buying cars as we all know they are just depreciating assets.

If the refresh is an improved version, that's a good thing! Hopefully it means more people will become interested in this amazing car we are all able to drive. And if you like the new features so much then you can choose to upgrade. In the time being, appreciate our car for what it is.

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by Brayden_23

I know I shouldn't get involved in this pissing match, but here I go...

People need to stop getting their panties all in a bunch over Scion discontinuing. If you drive the 86 platform, just enjoy the crap out of your car; that's what it was made for. If you are really that concerned about resale value, I recommend you stop buying cars as we all know they are just depreciating assets.

If the refresh is an improved version, that's a good thing! Hopefully it means more people will become interested in this amazing car we are all able to drive. And if you like the new features so much then you can choose to upgrade. In the time being, appreciate our car for what it is.

I have had 4 coffees and am fully armed!


With you 100% on the rest.

[phm14]

Originally Posted by Tcoat

I have had 4 coffees and am fully armed!


With you 100% on the rest.

Armed with what? Is caffeine brain food? Your assertion the branding has no association with consumer perception of value is baseless and patently false. In fairness, the fact I was licensed as a used car dealer for 3 years as a side business would indicate that my experience in tracking used car values is limited. What's yours? The reference to your post count points out that your have quite a lot to say. Ever consider why we have two ears and one mouth? We can learn from both the foolish and wise, but it is often the wise who use few words. I would have guessed you were much younger, given the obvious enjoyment you have of holding up unsupported personal opinion as fact while ignoring good info when it hits you in the face. Branding is a fundamental principle of marketing and consumer perception..a topic you seem to posses very little knowledge of. Are you reading my posts? How do you explain all of the badge switching that has gone on with these cars if brand makes no difference in consumer perceived value? If you'll kindly excuse me, I have a very busy business to run

[Tcoat]

Originally Posted by phm14

Armed with what? Is caffeine brain food? Your assertion the branding has no association with consumer perception of value is baseless and patently false. In fairness, the fact I was licensed as a used car dealer for 3 years as a side business would indicate that my experience in tracking used car values is limited. What's yours? The reference to your post cost indicates that your have quite a lot to say. Ever consider why we have two ears and one mouth? I would have guessed you were much younger, given your obvious enjoyment you have of holding up unsupported personal opinion as fact while ignoring good info when it hits you in the face. Branding is a fundamental principle of marketing and consumer perception..a topic you seem to posses very little knowledge of. Are you reading my posts? How do you explain all of the badge switching that has gone on with these cars if brand makes no difference in consumer perceived value? If you'll kindly excuse me, I have a very busy business to run

As it is apparent that you can not debate without resorting to personal attack and innuendo I will close with this comment.
The badge switching went on because people stated that the FRS WAS a Toyota and NOT a Scion. This fact was the very basis of my point.


Oh and to give in to personal sentiments (sorry ichi I know I promised) stating that you were a "Used Car Dealer" for a whole 3 years does not come as a high recommendation.

[STZ]

Originally Posted by phm14

Armed with what? Is caffeine brain food? Your assertion the branding has no association with consumer perception of value is baseless and patently false. In fairness, the fact I was licensed as a used car dealer for 3 years as a side business would indicate that my experience in tracking used car values is limited. What's yours? The reference to your post count points out that your have quite a lot to say. Ever consider why we have two ears and one mouth? We can learn from both the foolish and wise, but it is often the wise who use few words. I would have guessed you were much younger, given the obvious enjoyment you have of holding up unsupported personal opinion as fact while ignoring good info when it hits you in the face. Branding is a fundamental principle of marketing and consumer perception..a topic you seem to posses very little knowledge of. Are you reading my posts? How do you explain all of the badge switching that has gone on with these cars if brand makes no difference in consumer perceived value? If you'll kindly excuse me, I have a very busy business to run

Holy shit man, come on.

How many post Tcoat has is completely irrelevant, as is the same with your supposed "business expertise".

Some people, including myself, may prefer the Toyota branding and don't want to own a Scion for personal reasons, but it's asinine to say that the old FRS are going to depreciate in value. Anyone who has enough knowledge worth a damn know that they're Toyotas at heart and if it bothered them they would've gotten the BRZ variant. Those people aren't going to panic and SELL SELL SELL!!!

I also find it laughable you won't own a Subaru despite the fact that the 2 cars are made in the exact same place... with the exact same parts...