Full throttle Electric Supercharger Build Thread

[KoolBRZ]

Attachment 129088

Originally Posted by Target70

I follow your logic on this, but isn't there a point at which the controller or motor can no longer make use of the available current? To increase the current, either you have lower internal resistance batts, or double up on the batteries(parallel), either should provide the added current. Just going from memory, the 1.5 provided an extra ~.5psi at 7000rpm. I started with dual dumps and was logging comparable boost numbers to the 1.5. Then Rob came out with the 2.0 setup which was just a battery substitution that was supposed to produce the same performance as the 1.5, only less complicated and in a smaller package with maybe a bit less capacity. If I understand you correctly, you are saying that either the SHURiKEN produces higher current than the 2.0 (which the controller can make use of), or the 2.0 is inferior to the 1.5, or even my dual 1.0 setup doesn't produce enough current to fully "saturate" the controller/motor, or finally that I may be misunderstanding the nature of the controller and/or motor.

No, you don't understand. This isn't a boat on the ocean. I can't just hold down the throttle for minutes at a time. In the real world I can only use boost for seconds at a time. So it is more important to me how fast they recharge, since I might need to boost again real soon. I drive an AT, so it isn't nearly as critical as it would be if I drove an MT. Maybe the ideal configuration would be 4 SHURiKENs with the 2 batteries powering my car, and all 4 powering the ESC. See crude drawing below.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Attachment 129088

No, you don't understand. This isn't a boat on the ocean. I can't just hold down the throttle for minutes at a time. In the real world I can only use boost for seconds at a time. So it is more important to me how fast they recharge, since I might need to boost again real soon. I drive an AT, so it isn't nearly as critical as it would be if I drove an MT. Maybe the ideal configuration would be 4 SHURiKENs with the 2 batteries powering my car, and all 4 powering the ESC. See crude drawing below.

I understand, I also never use mine for more than 3 or 4 seconds at a time, unless I'm getting on the interstate then it is 6 seconds till speeding. With my setup I don't think I have ever dropped below 26v, due to the extra capacity so I understand wanting to trade out capacity for output. I just thought you were saying that these were giving higher output/higher boost for a shorter amount of time. Now it sounds like you prefer them because they charge back to full very quickly so you can boost, slow down for a turn, then be back at 28V+ by the time you accelerate out of the corner. I have never logged a boost run at less than fully charged so I don't know how much it drops at less than fully charged.

Anyway I have also thought about using the dump pack as the main 12v battery. I just wasn't sure how to do it without relays and a complicated setup. The problems I always ran into, was that the dump pack is in a 24v configuration so you either need a 2:1 step down transformer or an automatic disconnect, when you need to start your car. Also your alternator will constantly try to charge the dumps when you boost, so you will have parasitic drag unless you decouple (via relay?) the batteries from the rest of the engine bay wiring harness after the car is started.

[stevo585]

More capacity or less resistance should net less voltage drop too. You should be able to add enough capacity that the voltage drops very little from 28 V which would be optimal, I think? But I'm a mech. engineer not too good at electronics. But I do have about 7 EE's at work that I can pick brains with.

[KoolBRZ]

Only Rob could say if there would be problems. I'd just feel safer relocating the car battery to the trunk, and doubling up the batteries for the ESC.

[brilthor]

Does anyone know what the controller is rated for (current/voltage), was this already mentioned in the thread somewhere?

EDIT - first post says 5kw controller, assuming 24v nominal 208 amps, 178 if you run the numbers @ 28v. Any current capability in the batteries shouldn't make a difference beyond that (unless it's underrated).

[WNDSRFR]

Originally Posted by KoolBRZ

Attachment 129088

No, you don't understand. This isn't a boat on the ocean. I can't just hold down the throttle for minutes at a time. In the real world I can only use boost for seconds at a time. So it is more important to me how fast they recharge, since I might need to boost again real soon. I drive an AT, so it isn't nearly as critical as it would be if I drove an MT. Maybe the ideal configuration would be 4 SHURiKENs with the 2 batteries powering my car, and all 4 powering the ESC. See crude drawing below.

It seems like this configuration should work. Can anyone explain to me why it won't?
Is there any reason why the batteries can't be wired this way?

[brilthor]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

It seems like this configuration should work. Can anyone explain to me why it won't?
Is there any reason why the batteries can't be wired this way?

You can end up with a voltage imbalance between the series components because you have 2 chargers in play. This can lead to over-charging. You can also run into issues due to your car's power supply voltage fluctuating so much.

As an example:

1. Both batteries start fully charged (let's say 14v each for a total of 28v)
2. You mash that gas pedal
3. voltage in both drops to 12v (for a total of 24v)
4. chargers start charging
5. one battery is being charged by both the alternator directly and the ESC controller, the other only by the esc controller (car batt is now at 14v, esc only batt at 13)
6. Alternator charging of batt ends (it sees a voltage of 14v)
7. ESC controller charging _continues_ (it sees a voltage of 27v)
8. car batt is overcharged causing damage

[WNDSRFR]

Does anybody have a schematic drawing of the entire ESC circuit? Including the battery(s) wiring, car alternator, charger/controller, engagement switch and compressor motor.

[Gutterboy]

anyone get hit up for some PM's on the next five kits? i am way down the list but i am anxious to here of any people who have fallen off the list or have no funds.

[Target70]

Originally Posted by Gutterboy

anyone get hit up for some PM's on the next five kits? i am way down the list but i am anxious to here of any people who have fallen off the list or have no funds.

off topic, but is your name a reference to the wraith?

[KoolBRZ]

Not to mention the 24 volt system is a floating ground, while the 12 volt system is not. I'm just going to get a 4th battery and relocate the 12 volt system to the trunk. I also have air suspension and the motor always slows down when the pump runs, so I've been planning on putting a battery or two back there anyway. I figure I'll put two batteries back in the trunk, one for the engine, and one for the air suspension and an audio amplifier.

[keen as]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Does anybody have a schematic drawing of the entire ESC circuit? Including the battery(s) wiring, car alternator, charger/controller, engagement switch and compressor motor.

From website installation guide
http://www.phantomsuperchargers.com/.../frs-brz4a.pdf

[WNDSRFR]

Thanks but that's more a block diagram than a schematic. What I would really like to see is the internals of the charger/controller. I have no idea what's going on there.
As far as I can guess, the alternator puts out 12VDC (14) to the starter battery directly to recharge it. It also somehow goes through the charger/controller, gets converted to 24VDC (28) and recharges the dump batteries. Then the charger/controller also controls power to the 3 phase? motor being turned on or off by the petal switch or the Procede controller.
Is this a correct assumption or am I way off?

[brilthor]

Originally Posted by WNDSRFR

Thanks but that's more a block diagram than a schematic. What I would really like to see is the internals of the charger/controller. I have no idea what's going on there.
As far as I can guess, the alternator puts out 12VDC (14) to the starter battery directly to recharge it. It also somehow goes through the charger/controller, gets converted to 24VDC (28) and recharges the dump batteries. Then the charger/controller also controls power to the 3 phase? motor being turned on or off by the petal switch or the Procede controller.
Is this a correct assumption or am I way off?

This is correct, you can also have an auxiliary battery charger connected which will take power from the alternator (12v/14v) and convert it to 24v/28v (with additional charging logic) to charge the dump pack in parallel with the controller.

a slight nitpick: foot petal/procede controls the controller which in turn controls the electric motor as opposed to the motor directly receiving the switch input and just using the controller as a power source